Coolant Leak

[Brett James-McCall]

I've just got the point where I am putting coolant and oil into the car. Ignoring the bit where I had undone some bolts on the timing cover and forgotten to do them up when messing with alternator installs...

I think I have a leak/seepage at the heads at the front and on both sides. I've wiped it down and will have a look tomorrow to see if there is build up again, or worse drips. Has anyone else experienced something like this at all? If so, could it be bad head gaskets? I used new Fel-Pro gaskets and torqued the heads down.

Or any other thoughts or things I could do to check? Thanks

 

[Jac Mac]

More likely to be intake manifold/head interface (or possibly t/stat housing gasket but would need to be setting nose high to have coolant track to that area), than cylinder head gasket. Whatever it is fix it smart, if it is the intake gasket/manifold the coolant can also be leaking into the front inlet ports and then into those cylinders and then you get rust in the bore and then....................

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Jac,
Yes, I had to tighten the T stat housing and have now wiped down and am checking.

If it is the intake manifold/head interface how would it show up there please? I can't see any runs outside and can only se light being reflected there. Will check in the morning to to see if it is any more visible. Thanks

Brett

 

[Jac Mac]

Jac,
Yes, I had to tighten the T stat housing and have now wiped down and am checking.

If it is the intake manifold/head interface how would it show up there please? I can't see any runs outside and can only se light being reflected there. Will check in the morning to to see if it is any more visible. Thanks

Brett

Can you borrow a black light ( UV) it might be easier to 'see' the coolant with that if its tracking down along the front face of the head gasket to reach that point, you could also borrow a cooling system pressure tester, Im a bit hesitant on that though due to possibility of forcing coolant inside the engine.Scratch that, I see you have a dedicated t/stat housing, since its showing leaks at both sides most likely suspects are intake gaskets followed by head gasket.

 

[Tim Kay]

I don't think this matches your issue but my 351w is in for rebuild right now to resolve, among other things, a water leak at two of it's head studs. A small amount seeps up the stud and drips down the side of the head. Evidently a couple head studs run awfully close to the water jacket and the threads encroach enough to allow water to seep by.

 

[Jac Mac]

Brett has a Mex block and holes should be blind unless they have drilled/ tapped to deeper or even 1/2" thread as we do sometimes, your 351w should be able to be cured by removing one stud at a time and cleaning/applying sealant unless you have a gasket issue as well ( I believe the later F--- roller blocks might have the lighter casting/non blind head bolts in 351w form as well as some potential crack issues in the cam bearing tunnels as well..)

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Thanks Jac for the memory jogger. Yes, I have tapped out to 1/2", but I think I am going to have to take t least one side off to have a look to be sure

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Actually, update. No I didn't tap out to 1/2", I chased the threads clean. I am using 7/16" with shoulder washers.

Single bolts taken out at a time and sealant applied, even though 18 of 20 were dry. On undoing, I just felt some of them came away too easily, so despite torquing all those years ago per the specs (and how ARP advised with assembly lube), maybe they weren't that great. Also, the intake was remarkably loose!! So that has been tightened as well. I am not sure what has gone on, but I know that I torqued up as per the Monroe/Haynes books when building the engine.

I'll leave it over night having wiped everything down and see if there is any visible leakage in the morning. All very frustrating.

 

[Randy V]

Just a quick note about the T-stat housings..
I've had them leak before due to the bolts being too long and bottoming out in the intake.
Good luck!!

 

[Brett James-McCall]

So sadly, there still seems to be some seepage on the N/S. Very little, but there are definitely drips appearing on the floor. The re-torque has very muched helped

Despite using a UV light, it hasn't been easy to see/trace. It seems to collect on the takeoff plate. So it was down to tissue and wipe; it's definitely wet at the head gasket area

I think then it means the whole top end will have to come off unless anyone can think of anything else? Thanks

 

[Keith]

Assuming none has leaked into the cylinder, would a heat cycle and re-torque help?

 

[Mike Pass]

I think it would be a good idea to take the top end off and find what the issue is and fix it. I have seen what happens in a 351 when a cylinder fills with water and you start an engine. It's hard to believe that a strong steel con rod can bend like a banana but it does! Check you have the correct good quality gaskets for the rebuild. A check that the block and head surfaces are truly flat whilst it is apart would be a good idea also.
I know it's a royal pain taking off the exhaust manifolds etc. but you will be a lot happier when you know all is OK and it can stay like that for many years. My 302 is now in it's 16 year so they will be very reliable when all is correct.
Cheers
Mike

 

[Robert May Eng.]

Actually, update. No I didn't tap out to 1/2", I chased the threads clean. I am using 7/16" with shoulder washers.

Single bolts taken out at a time and sealant applied, even though 18 of 20 were dry. On undoing, I just felt some of them came away too easily, so despite torquing all those years ago per the specs (and how ARP advised with assembly lube), maybe they weren't that great. Also, the intake was remarkably loose!! So that has been tightened as well. I am not sure what has gone on, but I know that I torqued up as per the Monroe/Haynes books when building the engine.

I'll leave it over night having wiped everything down and see if there is any visible leakage in the morning. All very frustrating.

Going back one step to the head bolts, you are using the 7/16 bolts with reducing washers. Its not unheard of especially with a blind hole for the head bolts to bottom out before they have applied enough pressure to the head. Its something I always check now after having a reoccurring gasket failure on a motor. It may be worth checking this out before you go any further, if you were to take one bolt out at a time and remove the washer you could then screw the bolt back in and see if it bottoms out before the head of the bolt contacts the head. You would only need one or two like this and you will have a leak. Just thoughts.

Bob

 

[Brett James-McCall]

I'll have a look at the bolts, but when I say bots, I really mean stud (sorry for the wording) a bit like this: http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/arp-254-4405/overview/make/ford

Any recommendations please on head gaskets. The originals are Fel-Pro from Real Steel (bought years ago so can't remember what part number). Heads are from Patriot Performance years ago, who I can't seem to find anymore, but reference here: http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/par-1102/overview/

Edit: I think Alabma Cylinder Head/Patriot Performance are now known as ProMaxx: http://www.promaxxperformance.com/index.php/racing-parts/sbf/sbf-small-block-ford.html

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Does anyone have recommendation on gasket sets in the UK? Would just a normal FelPro or Victor Reinz top overhaul set be OK to use from Real Steel, or would I be better off going for individual parts and 'higher performance' head gaskets? Thanks

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Update time!

I borrowed a coolant pressure tester from a friend and we discovered some things.

1 - No apparent leakage around the head or intake manifold area

2 - The thermostat housing appears to have a pin hole in it. Is there a way to seal this without having to take the whole intake manifold off? Maybe some chemical metal?

3 - I need a better hose joiner

4 - The header tank has a pin hole in the top as well, so this will need a little tig

 

[Jac Mac]

Thermostat housing, just remove it from the intake manifold ( two bolts& hoses ) and get it tig welded at same time as header tank.

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Thermostat housing, just remove it from the intake manifold ( two bolts& hoses ) and get it tig welded at same time as header tank.

Can't get to the lower bolt to remove it. It's an ARP 12 point and the timing cover is interfering to get the spanner head in. Any ideas welcome Thanks Jac

 

[Randy V]

Do they sell JB Weld epoxy over there? The original recipe stuff (not the quick setting) makes a very hard and solid repair. Note that you will need to have the area totally prepared and cleaned with lacquer thinner or acetone (brake Clean may work also)...
The only other thing I can think of is a Ceramic Cooling System Sealer like that sold by Moroso. I have used that on a number of engines to get the sleeves to seal up.

 

[Jac Mac]

Can't get to the lower bolt to remove it. It's an ARP 12 point and the timing cover is interfering to get the spanner head in. Any ideas welcome Thanks Jac

Must have been designed/built by Fran!
Can you bend up an old 12 point ring spanner into a 'C' shape or whatever to allow it to fit.