What's this noise?

Chris,

OLD SCHOOL DETECTION METHOD.
Use a wooden yard stick or strip of wood as a stethoscope.
Place one end on the water pump body, the other end next to your ear. This should tell you if it's the pump, if not try the same on the alternator etc. The squeal will be apparent from where the noise is coming from while the car is running.

This method can be used on many parts of the engine.

Just keep it away from the moving pulleys and belts, you don't want brain damage. :shocked: LOL

Later,
Howard
 
Quite likely that the new alt pulley you machined up has not got a deep enough groove or different °vee angle and the belt is slipping, always check what you changed first! You also mention you changed the belt, if its section & design is not the same as the one on the A/C pump the two belts will fight each other on the water pump pulley, might be an illusion but it looks like the rear belt sits lower in the WP pulley .
 
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Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
Belt slippage...for whatever reason. I assume both belts are new and properly tightened?
Apply some 'belt grip' to 1 belt at a time and see what happens.
Don't do 'em both at once...do 1 at a time so if 'slippage' IS the problem, you'll know immediately which belt is at fault. THEN you can proceed from there to find out why. ;)
 

Howard Jones

Supporter
Jac! You got me reading up on V belt profiles and now I don't know what the hell I got or what I should have. Is there a "most common" V belt type that fits all the normal pulleys on SBC's and Fords. Old school V belts not serpentine.
 

Chris Kouba

Supporter
Thanks as always for the replies.

I did try the stethoscope trick with a screwdriver but it didn't cough up the offender, or I didn't try hard enough. I originally thought it should be a belt thing as well, but I did spray a little something and it didn't go away. They are definitely tight.

The belt should be identical in profile to the prior one- a standard 3/8" V-belt an inch and change shorter. The V angle should be as close as I can manufacture. The water pump pulley was CNC'd by someone else and presumably should be correct. Using a very scientific eye and finger inspection, the two belts are equally seated in their respective V grooves.

Interestingly enough, I went out to check on those things today and started it back up. No noise. I'll get it properly warmed up and see if it comes back.

Thanks again,
Chris
 

Ian Anderson

Lifetime Supporter
Had you done numerous starts and checks?
Did you also have other things, lights fans etc on?
Was the battery really flat and the alternator trying to do it's 75amps or whatever thing?

If so I have had belts slip for a while and then quieten up after everything started charging up as normal

After that never squeeled again

Ian
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
"I went out to check on those things today and started it back up. No noise. I'll get it properly warmed up and see if it comes back."

I know how this is going to sound, but, if it does come back and all else fails, you might try 'roughing up' the pulley groves with sandpaper ('perpendicular' strokes up and down inside the groves rather than 'horizontal' strokes). :shocked2: I did that decades ago at the suggestion of a mechanic I knew back then, and it worked. (They were steel pulleys though mind you.)
 
Jac! You got me reading up on V belt profiles and now I don't know what the hell I got or what I should have. Is there a "most common" V belt type that fits all the normal pulleys on SBC's and Fords. Old school V belts not serpentine.

The most common belt for that era seemed to be 3/8" wide, BUT in many cases the Power Steering Pump or AC used a 1/2' wide belt.
In cases where a pair of V belt was used on the bigger high amp alternators the belts were 'selected or matched pairs'. In Chris's case he may have been better off to have retained his larger Alternator pulley and simply used a shorter belt or better still use a belt for crank to Alt only and let the current Crank, WP, AC remain, this would avoid the possibility of belt speed variations on the WP due to different loadings. That would give better grip to the Alt belt since it would 'wrap' around both Crank & Alt pulleys to a greater amount.

I included above a previous post from Chris that might serve as 'Re- Education!... eg ... been there n dun this:)
 

Chris Kouba

Supporter
Thanks Gents.

From the been there done that perspective, I have been thinking about it. This pulley fits right in the middle of size range where the original one was ~2" and the first one I made was just under 4". At 3.25", I think it's going to be ok. I will give it a little more time before I make any significant changes to it, but I will shamelessly try the sandpaper trick if need be.

Right now, I don't think the belts are fighting each other. The AC clutch is not energized and the pulley is free to spin. I will see what happens once it's functional though.

As for the state of charge, when I first started this exercise in Dec, it was low. Still had enough to start though, but I put it on the charger and haven't had an issue since. It starts and runs fine. I have had the low volt issue occasionally if it goes too long between drives, and when I'd give it some gas, the squeal went away. That has not been the experience on this episode.

I will check my clearance though and see if I can make the crank-alt/crank-WP-AC idea work too.

My weekend starts tomorrow and the car is all I have on the agenda until Sat. I hope to make some good progress on it over the next few days and will let you know what happens.

Chris
 

Pat

Supporter
That didn't sound like a belt noise to me. Are the pulleys on tight, the pulley's aligned and/or the idler tension too firm? I'd spray some WD 40 on the idler & the A/C clutch and see if you get a different sound.
My truck sounded like that just before the bearing went on the idler pulley.
 

Howard Jones

Supporter
If you have ANY over heating issues then it's the impeller spinning on the shaft. Very common with those Edelbrock/FMS alum. water pumps.
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
Are the pulleys on tight, the pulley's aligned and/or the idler tension too firm? I'd spray some WD 40 on the idler & the A/C clutch and see if you get a different sound.

If you have ANY over heating issues then it's the impeller spinning on the shaft.


But...wouldn't the noise be constant rather than 'come-and-go' if either situation above were the case? :shrug:
 
Had the same problem with mine. The A/C wasn't plumed so it had to be the alternator. Wound up being the pulley on the crankshaft(non Ford product). Was reassured it was the alternator by letting it run for a while and the belt started smoking. Did two things. first got a new belt. One with the brown fabric liner. Next got a Ford pulley set from CVF racing. Great stuff. Just match up the number of bolts used. All aluminum and everything fit perfectly. Use a right angle square(big steel one) to make sure they are lined up correctly. Measure off the face of the crank and move things forward and backward til they line up. May require some spacers.
Ford V-belt Pulleys

Bill
 

Howard Jones

Supporter
Larry, the loose impeller issue starts as a intermittent slipping on the WP shaft and progresses to not turning the impeller at all. At that point the water temp is off the chart and the pump is done. Best fix it weld the impeller onto the shaft from the inside, (this will render the pump non re-buildable because you can no longer change seals) or buy a Stewart pump (I am told they are keyed shafts).

http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-tec...ord-racing-track-use-water-pump-problems.html
 
Well it is a 'new' WP so it could have an issue, other possibilities:
Sandwich plate between block/bellhousing got tweaked during engine out/in issues and is rubbing on flywheel.
AC tensioner strap is possibly contacting AC pulley.
ALT fan touching bracket or housing.

Why did the 4'' ALT pulley not hit before ( as its smaller in dia than fan it cannot hit side of engine bay sponson, so where was the contact?) Why did the engine position change??
Not something like fitting top x member of horseshoe back to front is it?
 
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