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Old 28th December 2017, 09:56 PM   #1
Norcoastal
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Ho 302 f1se

I知 planning my build. I pick up my chassis in 2 weeks and I知 trying to get the basics in place. Very excited.

The chassis is set up for a Coyote engine, but I知 still determining which engine to choose.

My frame is set up for a Porsche 996/997 transmission so that痴 decided.

I stumbled upon a 302 HO 1991 F1SE motor with GT40 heads and low mileage. I was thinking of using the long block as the base for my build but I知 still trying to decide.

Does anyone have any experience with this block. Does anyone have any thoughts on this as a good start for a power plant?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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Old 30th December 2017, 12:48 PM   #2
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Re: Ho 302 f1se

What fuel will you use? Pump gas? How much power do you want? and, Street, Street/track, or track only.
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Old 30th December 2017, 01:55 PM   #3
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Re: Ho 302 f1se

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Originally Posted by Howard Jones View Post
What fuel will you use? Pump gas? How much power do you want? and, Street, Street/track, or track only.
Good guestions; I'll be using pump gas and I'm hoping to make somewhere around 400hp.

The heads may not be adequate but maybe. The right cam and intake should get me over 300. If I want 400+ I'll need aluminum heads with bigger chambers.

My question is I wonder if this is a good short block? I'm also looking at a 351W. I've been a Chevy guy all my life. This is my first venture into Ford.

The more I read, the more I'm leaning towards a sbf and not a Coyote. Cost mainly.
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Old 30th December 2017, 01:57 PM   #4
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Re: Ho 302 f1se

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What fuel will you use? Pump gas? How much power do you want? and, Street, Street/track, or track only.
Mostly street. Maybe some track.
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Old 31st December 2017, 03:10 PM   #5
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Re: Ho 302 f1se

The more I read, the more I’m thinking 351W
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Old 31st December 2017, 03:27 PM   #6
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Re: Ho 302 f1se

The 351w makes a lot of sense, those 49 extra cubes come a lot cheaper than a 331 or 347 stroker kit for a 302 and with a better rod ratio.
Only things to watch are your upper RPM limit with regard to the 3" main bearing dia and bearing surface speed- don't go too tight on bearing clearance- and the later model 351w roller cam blocks have a casting flaw that often crops up in the cam bearing tunnels.
Stick to early C--- & D--- blocks to avoid that , only issue then is to buy/pay for link bar roller lifters if you still want hydraulic cam. With a hydraulic cam & assumed ~6500 RPM limit the bearing speed wont be an issue. If you want more than that get a Dart or Ford Sportsman block that will support more than most transaxles will handle.

FWIW Ive read up a bit on the F1SE blocks, the bores appear to have thicker cyl walls, but I don't believe the main bearing webs have much if any extra material added which was / is the real downfall of E--- & F--- production blocks.
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Last edited by jac mac; 31st December 2017 at 03:36 PM.
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Old 31st December 2017, 05:20 PM   #7
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Re: Ho 302 f1se

I have no direct knowledge of Blueprint motors but these specs are what I would generally recommend as a good solid street pump gas motor. 302s are a bit shorter and tend to fit GT40s a bit easier. If you want a nice running, easy to live with pump gas motor with plenty of power then this is all you really need.

A 351 would build out at nearly the same cost and I would guess the extra C.I.s would put you well over 400 hp. My guess would be about 425 or so.

Really a perfect street motor that would last the life of the car.

BluePrint Engines 306CI Crate Engine | Small Block Ford Style | Longbl

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Old 31st December 2017, 05:51 PM   #8
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Re: Ho 302 f1se

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302s are a bit shorter and tend to fit GT40s a bit easier. | Longbl[/url]
Howard, 351w is same length as 302, 289 etc, It may appear longer in GT40 engine bay due to rearward rake angle of firewall and obviously a bit taller & wider due to the 9.5" vs 8.2" deck height of 302.
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Old 31st December 2017, 06:13 PM   #9
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Re: Ho 302 f1se

Quote:
Originally Posted by jac mac View Post
The 351w makes a lot of sense, those 49 extra cubes come a lot cheaper than a 331 or 347 stroker kit for a 302 and with a better rod ratio.
Only things to watch are your upper RPM limit with regard to the 3" main bearing dia and bearing surface speed- don't go too tight on bearing clearance- and the later model 351w roller cam blocks have a casting flaw that often crops up in the cam bearing tunnels.
Stick to early C--- & D--- blocks to avoid that , only issue then is to buy/pay for link bar roller lifters if you still want hydraulic cam. With a hydraulic cam & assumed ~6500 RPM limit the bearing speed wont be an issue. If you want more than that get a Dart or Ford Sportsman block that will support more than most transaxles will handle.

FWIW Ive read up a bit on the F1SE blocks, the bores appear to have thicker cyl walls, but I don't believe the main bearing webs have much if any extra material added which was / is the real downfall of E--- & F--- production blocks.
Thank you. I致e read up on the F1SE also and felt that the added strength in the walls would be better but I guess not necessarily.

I知 on the look out for C and D blocks!
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Old 31st December 2017, 06:13 PM   #10
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Re: Ho 302 f1se

Any other advice while searching for a 351?
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Old 31st December 2017, 06:54 PM   #11
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Re: Ho 302 f1se

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Any other advice while searching for a 351?
Other than looking for any damage or reason for it being sold like run without oil or coolant, none really. I assume you would replace heads and intake with aftermarket alloy items and since crank, rods, block are same regardless of being 2 or 4 barrel it makes it quite simple to check for a C--- or D--- block casting # and go from there. Grab hold of crank and push it front to back to check endfloat ( should be minimal ~ 0.010", much more indicates thrust face wear , quite common on any high mileage auto trans car and requires new crank to fix). If you can run it check oil pressure ( 10/15lb @ idle, 50/55lb above 2500 ) compression test even and anything from 150/200lb as some engines have lower comp ratio pistons & heads.
If you get lucky bore will still be std & you might get by with 0.020" rebore, however these blocks are safe out to 0.060" usually so you have 0.030'' & 0.040" & 0.060" as backup!
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Old 31st December 2017, 10:05 PM   #12
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Re: Ho 302 f1se

Thank you so much. All of these blocks are the same? I’m used to chevys where there are blocks with 2 bolt main bearings and 4 bolt mains.

Thanks for the info.
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Old 31st December 2017, 10:24 PM   #13
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Re: Ho 302 f1se

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Originally Posted by Norcoastal View Post
Thank you so much. All of these blocks are the same? I知 used to chevys where there are blocks with 2 bolt main bearings and 4 bolt mains.

Thanks for the info.
Yes both C--- & D--- 351w blocks are the same- 2bolt main, all 1/2" dia bolts , same for head bolts. There are some minor casting differences you will notice if you look at a few, but they are minor.... Do you know to look for 'core' shift, easy enough to do. Lifter bores should be roughly concentric with casting around them, same for rear cam brg when viewed from rear, but they are in most cases pretty good... no where near as bad as SBC used to be. Another thing, if your buying in/from an area where it gets real cold or ex marine stuff check valley and lower areas of water jackets for frost damage / cracks.
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Old 1st January 2018, 10:09 AM   #14
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Re: Ho 302 f1se

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Originally Posted by jac mac View Post
Yes both C--- & D--- 351w blocks are the same- 2bolt main, all 1/2" dia bolts , same for head bolts. There are some minor casting differences you will notice if you look at a few, but they are minor.... Do you know to look for 'core' shift, easy enough to do. Lifter bores should be roughly concentric with casting around them, same for rear cam brg when viewed from rear, but they are in most cases pretty good... no where near as bad as SBC used to be. Another thing, if your buying in/from an area where it gets real cold or ex marine stuff check valley and lower areas of water jackets for frost damage / cracks.
Very helpful, thank you!
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Old 1st January 2018, 12:31 PM   #15
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Re: Ho 302 f1se

Jack is correct. 302's are shorter in height, a little bit wider, and the same in lenght. The little bit of height can be a factor in some GT40 kits because of the engine cover clearance. This is of cource something that would be brand specific and usually can be worked around with exaust design, engine mounts etc. Really just something to be aware of when talking to the kit manufacture of your choice. Ask about 351 engine fit.
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Old 8th January 2018, 08:20 AM   #16
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Re: Ho 302 f1se

I've read that the blocks from 1969-1974 are better than later blocks. I'm not sure if these are the C and D blocks spoken of earlier.
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Old 8th January 2018, 02:44 PM   #17
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Re: Ho 302 f1se

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Originally Posted by 70gsconvt View Post
I've read that the blocks from 1969-1974 are better than later blocks. I'm not sure if these are the C and D blocks spoken of earlier.
B=1950's, C=1960's, D=1970's, E=1980's, F=1990's,....
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Old 11th January 2018, 10:05 PM   #18
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Smile Re: Ho 302 f1se

I like the 302 motor (5.0 block). I had a stroker 302 / 354 in my Cobra that made over 400 to the rear wheels.
I drove a 408 (351 block) several thousands miles with 530 hp at the flywheel. Great motor. But I think my 302 was a little faster.

Either motor would be great in a GT 40.

Header / exhaust would be a big factor for me. I would check and see what is available before I picked a motor.

My GT 40 has a 347 with Dyno Tec fuel injection. I build it based upon the information I gain with the Cobra motor that I had dyno'ed several times

Aluminum heads are a must. Weight savings and the horsepower gains are well worth the extra money.
I changed aluminum heads for a pair of Keith Crafts CNC Brodix heads and gained 80 hp and tq to the rear wheels.

Best $1,800 I've spend on a car.


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Old 17th January 2018, 02:55 PM   #19
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Re: Ho 302 f1se

I've got no experience with the specific motor you're asking about, but I also have a Ford 302 long block with 350h/350t in my RCR (alu heads and manifold; Edelbrock EFI). If you're not looking to win the hp bragging wars at cars and coffee, it's more than adequate for street use and probably mild track time in my opinion. I wouldn't rule it out. The mulitport injection will never look like 4x2 Webers, but the throttle body does look like a 4 barrel carb, and the tractability and user-friendliness of the EFI can't be beat.

These are the specs for mine:

302 CUBIC INCH 345 HP BOSS CRATE ENGINE WITH "B" CAM| Part Details for M-6007-X302B | Ford Performance Parts
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