Mirrors and rear view cameras

This tread is to try and pull together post on these subjects as they are all over the forum but not in a central location, hidden in threads that a lot of us would not know they are out there. So if you have some ideas of interest post away. If you have sources for outside/inside mirrors or rear view camera setups both for motoring or for video, post them here with all the great details. Tell us about the mirrors you are using and their good and bad points.

I am currently adapting a set of RX7 mirrors that WERE motorized. I got them from a salvage yard. I will save this story for another post.
Here are some of the specifics on rear view systems that I have found to be good. It is kind of long, but the info is specific and should help the novice as well as the well versed:
Tadi Brothers | Backup Camera system, Wireless Backup Camera for RV and trucks

Backup Camera System | Vehicle Safety Products | RearViewSafety.com
This site even has a "Black Box" recording camera that is mountable almost anywhere. It records at 30 f/s and can hold a 32GB card. It also can hold a second camera.
Search results for: 'black box'

Wholesale Stand-Alone Rearview Monitors - Rear View Monitor * Video Monitor - ESPOW

rear view camera - Google Search



I hope this guide helps you with your purchase of a quality rear view camera system. Please note that I've tried to provide accurate information in simple, non-technical, layman's terms. I want you to understand exactly what to look for in a rear view camera system, so you'll have the best system available.

Automatic System Switching

This is accomplished by connecting a single wire to the vehicle's backup light circuit, sending a signal to the rear view camera system, causing it to switch on without any action by the operator.
You can manually switch the system on every time you want to see behind you using the monitor's front panel power button (or wireless remote control, if so equipped). The better multiple camera systems can automatically switch more than one camera.


Mirror Image Capability

A rear view camera system should have the capability to produce a 'mirror' (or 'reverse') image through the camera and/or monitor. It doesn't matter whether the camera produces a 'mirror' image, or the monitor reverses the image left to right, or as on some high end systems, both the camera and monitor can switch between 'normal' and 'mirror' images.
This capability will provide the same type of image through a rear view camera system that you would see if you were looking into a rear view mirror. Many high end systems not only allow you to select between a 'normal' and 'mirror' image, but also permit you to 'flip' the picture vertically for additional camera mounting options.


Wide Angle Field of View

The field of view provided by any camera is determined by a combination of image sensor (see "CCD vs. CMOS Image Sensor" below) size and lens focal length. The larger the image sensor, the wider the possible field of view. However, a larger image sensor does not necessarily guarantee a wider field of view. Many rear view camera systems utilize a 1/4" image sensor. You should absolutely avoid any system that produces lower than a 90 degree field of view. Most high quality rear view cameras that utilize a 1/3" image sensor produce a 120 degree field of view. That is ideal for most applications.
On the other hand, there are some rear view systems advertised with fields of view as wide as 210 degrees. These super wide field of view cameras are not intended for use on rear view systems, and will generally produce a 'fish-eye' image that will be extremely distorted and can be very dangerous to use as part of a rear view system. They should be used for backing up only.


CCD vs. CMOS Image Sensor

The two types of image sensors that are available for rear view (backup) camera systems are the CCD ("charge coupled device") and CMOS ("complementary metal oxide semiconductor"). The type of image sensor that your rear view camera system uses will be the most important factor in determining picture quality. Besides the overall resolution, a camera that utilizes a CCD image sensor will provide significantly better image under very low and very bright lighting conditions.
All professional digital photographic and video equipment utilize CCD image sensors. Although there are some reasonably high quality CMOS image sensors, no CMOS image sensor will deliver the quality image that a CCD image sensor will provide(my opinion). Get the highest lines of resolution(420 TV lines or so) and contrast ratio(around 250:1) that you can find. Look for monitors that can accept nore than one camera and have the ability to show more than one camera at a time(split screen) for expandability. Look for high resolution where possible(1024x768

Given the option, you should always select a rear view camera system that utilizes a high quality CCD image sensor from a well known manufacturer. Sharp and Sony CCD image sensors are the best available. If the system you're considering purchasing doesn't state that it utilizes a "CCD" image sensor, then it almost certainly doesn't.

Weather Resistant Camera, Cables & Connectors

Remember, a camera mounted on the exterior will be subjected to more than just water. It may be exposed to a wide variety of elements, including road grime, oil, dust, detergents, and high pressure washes(I hope not!!). Just as the camera can be exposed to these elements, so are the exterior cables and connectors.
Weather resistant cables and connectors should also be used for all exterior installations. RCA connectors are not made for external systems.

Exterior connections should always be made of weatherproof connectors. Weatherproof connectors screw together, so they can't accidentally come unplugged.

Many systems include interior RCA connections, which are perfectly acceptable. In fact, these interior RCA connections can be useful for adding additional cameras (even those from other manufacturers), or for connecting other video and/or audio devices.


Infrared Night Vision

This is probably one of the least understood features available, and yet, it is one of the most important features. Although a high quality camera (especially a high quality CCD camera) can provide a picture under a wide variety of lighting conditions (including very low light), it can't provide a clear picture in near or total darkness. That's where the infrared night vision illumination LEDs (light emitting diodes) come in.
On a high quality night vision equipped camera, the infrared LEDs turn on automatically whenever the ambient light drops to a level that's too low for the image sensor to produce a high quality picture. The infrared LEDs operate at a light frequency that is well above the human eye's ability to see, but the image sensor in the camera is designed to detect this light.
The primary difference between visible and infrared light is seen when using a color rear view camera system. Since infrared light doesn't produce colors that are visible to the human eye, all color systems will produce a monochromatic image at night(ususlly).
One big difference between a high quality rear view camera and a lower quality one, is its ability to illuminate the area seen by the camera. Ideally, the infrared illuminators will illuminate the entire field of view produced by the camera, and will illuminate out to a distance of at least 20 feet from the camera. The higher end cameras will typically illuminate out to a distance of 30 to 50 feet from the camera.
While the number of infrared LEDs may or may not be important (just as with light bulbs, various infrared LEDs have higher or lower light intensities), the total light output and the camera's sensitivity to infrared light, will determine the overall performance of the camera's night vision capabilities.

Never consider purchasing a rear view camera system that does not include infrared night vision illumination.


Automotive Power Source

Nearly all rear view camera systems will work on any vehicle that operates from 12 volts DC. The lower quality systems (including some sold on eBay) do not include any type of voltage regulator or filtering circuit. The lack of such a circuit will cause the constant varying voltage produced by the vehicle's electrical system to either damage the system, or at a minimum, produce serious variations in picture quality.
If the system you're considering doesn't specifically state that it has a voltage regulator or filter, then it probably doesn't. So ask!!


Types of Monitors


When selecting a rear view system that uses an LCD type monitor, always choose the TFT-LCD type monitor for the best picture under the wide variety of lighting conditions.

In most cases you should avoid those rear view systems that use a monitor with less 5" diagonal measurement, as they do not provide adequate detail. Any system that has a monitor with less than a 5" diagonal measurement should only be considered for use as a backup camera system only.


Types of Cameras

There are three common types of cameras used for rear view camera systems. These are 'surface' (or 'standard') mount, 'flush' (or 'keyhole') mount and 'license' mount type cameras. Each type of camera has its own specific advantages, and each is designed for a specific type of use.
The surface mount camera can be attached to any flat (or near flat) surface. These cameras are best mounted up high This mounting position provides a commanding view of the area behind you. That will probably require an enclosure. They can be mounted inside the rear glass if preferred. These usually have brackets for mounting.
The 'flush' (or 'keyhole') type camera mounts through a hole in the body of the vehicle, and provides a view that is more or less directly level with the road surface (the better 'flush' mount cameras include rings that permit slight angling of the camera). While this type of camera does not provide the degree of depth perception provided by the 'surface' mount camera, it provides a much cleaner and unobtrusive installation, since the only part of the camera that is visible is the lens cover and bezel.
The 'license' mount cameras attach to the existing license plate mounting screws, so no new holes are required to attach the camera to the vehicle. Depending upon the location of the license plate, this may or may not be a good solution.

Most cameras are infrared night vision capable, although availability varies from one system to another. In most cases, the night vision capability of 'flush' or 'license' mount cameras will provide less illumination distance than an equal quality 'surface' mount camera (this is due to the limited number of infrared LEDs that those cameras have). While audio is available on many of the 'surface' mount cameras, I'm not aware of any 'flush' or 'license' mount cameras that include audio.

Wired vs. Wireless

While the picture produced by a high quality wireless system may be okay when the vehicle is stationary, every wireless device (every one!) is susceptible to interference, and that interference will be worse when the vehicle is in motion. Because a wireless system transmits a video image through the air, instead of via a cable, there can be some interference from a variety of sources, including electrical interference, high power radio and television transmitters, and many other sources encountered as the vehicle moves. You can pick up video from survelance cameras in reaturants, banks and parking lots, as mopst of their systems are wireless.
I personally prefer a wired system. If you absolutely insist upon a wireless rear view system, then you will have to settle for a lower quality picture than you would have with a high quality wired system. Check the specifications of any wireless system you are considering purchasing very carefully, and if you decide to buy a wireless system, buy the best wireless system available!

Well this is a start, so add to it. I will include my RX mirrors that are being altered for the cameras.

Bill
 
I am putting a rear view system together to go in my car. I have mirrors from an RX7 that were motorized.
P2060151.jpg

Were is the key word. I had planned on using the motors and switches, but they were useless. The mirrors were still functional, but had to be adjusted manually. Then I hit on the idea of installing cameras in the mirrors. I had hoped to integrate the cameras into the mirror so that it wouldn't be seen easily. When I disassembled the mirrors, I saw that wouldn't work.
P2060153.jpg

The nice part is that the motor frame is a good support for the camera. My hope is to do it in such a way that the mirrors will function as mirrors and housing for the cameras. The mirror itself will have to be replaced as the mount is built on to the back of the mirror.
The RX mirrors can be taken completely apart and altered so as to fit nicely on the GT 40. I am opting for the mirrors to go on the side windows. Since I am messing around with Lexan for an engine cover and filter, I had material to make the mounting bases for the mirrors.
P2060157.jpg

P2060159.jpg

It was made first to work with the mirrors as they were. I discovered that the base mounting tilted the mirrors downward. They were altered and swapped left for right and they straightened out to level.
P2060156.jpg


This mounting piece will have to be heated and bent a little to conform to the shape of the window. The mounting holes line up so that they can be mounted directly to the widow. If the organizers of races require the windows be removed I will build a second set that will be secured by the existing holes on the sill. I am planning for now to use 90 degree cameras. They will be set up so that as a car passes from the central camera that will be mounted in an enclosure on the spyder just before the rear hatch, it will show up in the side camera. The 90 degree should be good for judging the distance the oncoming car is. I will probably use it like I do my truck mirrors in that once the car passes from the central mirror, I can't go over. Will have to check that out when it is operative.

Bill
 
Have you given any thought to adding a blind side sensor - this has been a great concern for me.

John
 
Jphn,
Do you have info on the sensors?? I have seen them mentioned on different web sites, but never researched them because they refered to parking. I thought they were for parking and such and would let you know when you were close to a fixed object or a car bumper. What is their range? Where would you mount them?

Bill
 

Ian Anderson

Lifetime Supporter
My boss has a Newish (late 2009) Merc e class
He specified mirrors that include a system where there is a small section on the mirror that is blank in standard drive
Put the indicator on and it senses if something is in you "bind " spot and turns the triangle area either red or green

Might be worth while having a look at their system in a breakers yard

Ian
 
Based on the criteria that I listed, I have come across an Ebay site that appears to be head and shoulders above most of the things listed there. His quality is high and he is knowledgeable of the products. He has an ebay store with multiple products listed. His prices seem to mirror the big movers in this game. Automobile Rear View Camera Systems items - Get great deals on Backup, Back Up items on eBay Stores!
He list a "WINDSHIELD CAMERA DASH CAM SAFETY DVR ACCIDENT RECORDER" Remember these guys cater to the RV community mostly. From his store site:
This complete system includes the following components:

  • High resolution COLOR CCD "black box" dashboard camera w/ built-in microphone
  • FREE 4 GB SDHC memory card is included (for a limited time)
  • Heavy duty, fully adjustable windshield suction mount
  • Heavy duty 12 to 24 volt DC lighter adapter with power cable (+/- 10 feet)
  • RCA video output cable for real time monitoring (+/- 10 feet)
  • User manual w/ simple installation and operating instructions
  • Everything is packaged in a very nice gift box

"Black Box" Specifications:

  • Highest resolution FIVE MEGA-PIXEL COLORCCD video camera
  • User selectable 1280 x 720, 960 x 720 and 640 x 480 resolution
  • User selectable 60, 50, 40 or 30 frames per second recording (AVI format)
  • 4 GB SanDisk<sup>®</sup> SDHC memory card is included (for a limited time) *
  • Supports real-time video playback with included cable
  • Automatically begins recording when power is applied
  • Records image, date, time and elapsed time
  • Internal lithium-ion battery saves data
  • Built-in high gain microphone
  • Heavy duty composite enclosure
  • Dimensions: 4.5" (l) x 2.9" (w) x 1.1" (h) (not including bracket)
  • Storage temperature: -22° to +176° F
  • Operating temperature: -4° to +158° F
* Recording time is approximately 12.5 to 25 minutes per GB, depending upon the image resolution selected by the user. The included 4 GB SDHC memory card will provide approximately 50 to 100 minutes of recording time, depending upon the image resolution selected by the user. With a maximum 32 GB SD memory card capacity, the system can record up to a maximum of 400 to 800 minutes of video and audio, depending upon the image resolution selected by the user.

It is a 5 MP camera. It can activate with power turn on or manual and is a continuous loop recorder. The dash mount could be used on the rear window. The size is small enough.
I would be interested in something like this for the occasional track day. I have plans for down the road to visit several tracks around the country that are iconic to me and recording those memories would be fun.
I am interested in what others think of its size and capabilities/price. Any A/V guys out there?

Bill
 

Jim Rosenthal

Supporter
Bill, this is EXTREMELY useful and thank you for going to all this trouble. I am definitely going to keep all this in mind as I start driving my GT40. I am also going to think about it for my boat; it could be quite useful there as well. And my GPS units already have video inputs and TFT screens in them....
 

Seymour Snerd

Lifetime Supporter
...He list a "WINDSHIELD CAMERA DASH CAM SAFETY DVR ACCIDENT RECORDER"


For $99 I hit the "buy" button so fast it woke the cat. Thanks for the lead!

I'll stick it in my daily driver and let you know how it works out. I'm tempted to get one for each car.

:thumbsup:
 
Here is my setup - works fairly well. Gets some vibration because it is mounted on the rear hatch. Also gets some glare when sun is shinning on it!
 

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John
I tried the same type of setup(trial) using the license plate camera from a unit I had on my truck. It would fit the third brake light barely and you could see the strech in the plastic.
What is your field of view?? 90, 120, 180?? I want a good camera(I believe they call them "surface mount") on the top of the car. So it will be a little larger. What kind of pic are you getting with your setup. Is the camera you are using a lp unit? Is it using infrared lights?? Do you think the cameera would be more stable if put on the spyder? I think it would help with the cable run. Most of the shops give a ton of wiring so lenght is not an issue.
If you could, can you give us some of your driving impressions?

Bill
 

Seymour Snerd

Lifetime Supporter
$99 in car video recorder

I'll stick it in my daily driver and let you know how it works out. I'm tempted to get one for each car.

:thumbsup:

Here are some test shots (drive around the block, etc.) just to give an idea of video and audio quality. The video looks much better when played back from the camera memory directly to my computer than it does over the internet even when you put Youtube into 720P mode because Youtube applies video compression causing the splotchiness on, for example, pavement going by.).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl0l8hEIeKM (through windshield)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhd-ZlWDdiE (through rear window)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zFkJ56mwT0 (on the rear bumper)

The last one, simulating a backup camera, starts about 6" from the Toyota and ends about 20 feet away.

One operational quirk: to set the thing up (resolution, time/date, etc.) you need to be able to power it at 12V and hook it to a video device. So you either need a TV screen in your car, or a cigarette lighter adapter 12V source in your house. I did the latter.

Also, whatever the camera sees goes to the video out while it's recording. So it could be used as your onboard display (eg rear-view) camera. In that mode you get the recording "for free." So, for example, you could just suction-cup it to the rear window.

It's field of view is under 90 degrees; something around 60 or 75.

Very cute product.
 
Last edited:
That is a very neat product, with much better quality than I expected.

What does it look like at night? Do you have a video or impressions?

My SLC build plan has always included external cameras, and these, though bigger than I planned for, might be the ticket. The recording is a bonus.
 
Alan,
What resolution were you shooting, feet per sec? Does the owners manual give you an idea of the view angle? I am impressed with the unit. I think it puts out one of the best pics I have seen. A lot of the vids on Utube would have a hard time matching it. My priority right now is to get the camera setups. If I can get the view angle of your "Black Box" I will have an idea of what I need for the cameras. Once that is done, then the recorder.

Bill
 
At first I liked your idea for using the recorder for the rear view camera to screen. Then I got to thinking. SD cards are not expensive and I don't know how long their life is. What I do know is that they like other media will not last forever, so that means you will need more than if you use it for its intended purpose. Recording. 2nd, in order to utilize full viewing of what is behind you, you will still have to have side mirrors. That means you still have to move your head in a 180 degree arc to use them all. That is what caused me to wreck my Lotus. With the split screen(I am planning on three cameras), I can keep my eyes forward like using one central mirror. I believe the super cars(Can Ams etc.) on the road courses have their mirrors setup so they have their heads facing forward at all times. I will either mount the monitor to the cage where a regular mirror would be, or mounted in a panel that will extend from the dash down to the central tunnel. I am still up in the air about a radio!! Maybe I am kidding myself, but I feel safer that way. What do you guys think??

Bill
 

Seymour Snerd

Lifetime Supporter
Alan,
What resolution were you shooting, feet per sec? Does the owners manual give you an idea of the view angle?

1024x768 (the highest of the three choices). The owners manual.... LOL.... gives no information like that. It's a single sheet of badly translated Chinese. Angle is definitely less than 90, but a little larger than 60, which I know from shooting toward my audio system where I and the two speakers form an equilateral triangle. That's why I think it's in the range of 75.

If your e-mail won't choke on a 50 megabyte file I could send you any one of the three. Or tell me how big a file you can take and I'll send you a clip that size. If so, just e-mail or PM me with your e-mail.

I'll measure the exact viewing angle tomorrow when it's light.
 

Seymour Snerd

Lifetime Supporter
What do you guys think??

What I plan to do is leave my SPF's interior mirror as-is for whatever good it does me (at least I'll know if one of the air cleaners has fallen off), use the $20 mirrors I alluded earlier to cover the 30 degrees or so to left and right, and move my head to see further to the sides or center. Anything I do with a rear view camera(s) will just be an add-on for verification of blind spots or as a "first look". Maybe some day I'll engineer a periscope a la Lamborghini LP400. In principle with the right optics, etc., you could mount something in that rear roof vent/rain collector although toyed with putting a brake light there as well.

In my street cars my practice is to set the mirrors to overlap just a little with the interior mirror so that a quick right-center-left scan gives me the whole picture. But that's impossible in the GT40. I'm not comfortable relying on video due in part to depth perception risk.
 
The mirrirs I have in my truck are setup that way as well. I think if the cameras have a field of view similar or close to the recorders, they can function like the mirrors. Least that is how I plan to set them up. Depth perception should be pretty close to natural with a low field of vision. Guess we will have to wait and see.

Bill
 
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