Rattling Rivets

Hi all

I was just about to rivet on some panels to my car with some new sealed 4x12.5mm rivets I bought last week.

I normally buy Bralo pop rivets but these are a different brand as they have been ordered in a black colour to match my car.

Before I started putting them onto my car I rivetted a couple into a test piece of 2mm thick aluminium and noticed that I heard a slight rattle after. It seems that when the shanks snap off there is a tiny piece of aluminium inside the head of the rivet that rattles around. It seems to be happening on every one I've tested so far.

I've since tested a 4x10mm Bralo sealed rivet and they are fine, with no rattles.

So what should I do? Are the rivets faulty, is this common and how can I stop them rattling. I don't want to switch back to my old rivets as they are silver and getting these new black rivets has taken me a long time as you just can't but black sealed rivets anywhere.

Thanks

Trev
 
Trev,
with the engine off, they won't rattle. With the engine running you won't hear or be bothered about a few rivet heads ratttling inside a chassis tube!

Stop deliberating - get building :thumbsup:

Andy
 
Trev,
with the engine off, they won't rattle. With the engine running you won't hear or be bothered about a few rivet heads ratttling inside a chassis tube!

Stop deliberating - get building :thumbsup:

Andy

Thanks for the input Andy. It's not the heads of the rivets in the tube of the chassis as they are sealed rivets but it actually looks like a small piece of aluminium flakes off and gets trapped inside the top of the rivet as shown here:

rivet.jpg


I probably could live with it, but if there is a way to avoid it then I want the rivets to fit properly and not rattle. The odd 1 or 2 are fine but I don't fancy having the best part of 1000 rivets with these flakes of aluminium rattling around engine on or off.

What about dabbing in a bit of sealant of glue inside the top of each rivet, It wouldn't be the fastest process but I guess it would work?

Trev
 
Trev,
I honestly don't think you’ll notice then, it such a tiny flake of aluminium, with a negligible mass, it won’t be heard above everything else. Wiping them this a smear of silicone sealant will do the job and give you the peace of mind you’re looking for<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" /><o:p></o:p>
Regards,<o:p></o:p>
Andy<o:p></o:p>
 
Last edited:
See my post Tornado Build - www.gt40builder.com Should solve it?

Bill

Thanks Bill

I am not sure the rivets are defective as when they go in there is no play between the rivet and the aluminium sheet and they are very well held in place and the sheet isn't going anywhere.

However I did notice that when I look at the underside of the test piece that the rivets seemed to be curling slightly rather than expanding dead straight. Could it be that as the rivet it twisting slightly that the rivets arn't snapping correctly causing some debris to get lodged in the rivet head?

Trev
 
Not really. Most of the fivets will pull to the weakest part of the housing and you will see them a little off center. What I was refering to was the rod snaping before it completely pulled tight. If the material doesn't move the rivet is O K. The air driven tools will pull rather quickly. If the shaft were weak it might pop before getting tight. The hand units will generaly take two pulls per rivet before snaping.

Bill
 

Tim Kay

Lifetime Supporter
Trev,

I once had aluminum rivets sent out and anodized a specific color for another project. All the rivets in that batch would break the tightening shaft early, under the lightest tension. Although they would tighten, they were not nearly as tight as normal aluminum rivets. I don't recall any rattling. This may not have anything to do with yours, just a mention.
 
Rivet update

Ok so I've done some tests on the rivets. I put some rivets through 2, 4 & 6mm of aluminium panels and still the same issue so I don't think it has anything to do with the thickness of the material it is rivetting together.

So I decided to take apart the rivets to see what is causing the rattling and this is what I found

Picture 1 - Shows the shaft of the rivet with the head removed. Left side shows rivet tilted down and you can see the fleck of aluminium I was talking about. Right side shows the rivet tilted back and the fleck falling back to the base of the rivet.

rivet2.jpg



Picture 2 & 3- Shows the rivet taken apart and what fell out. There are 2 small pieces of material that came out. One looks almost like a washer and the second has a rounded head like a drawing pin and looks to be where the shank of the rivet snaps off (back shown in third picture)

rivet4.jpg


rivet3.jpg


So questions. What are these parts of the rivets, is this normal, are the rivets no good and whats the solution? Back to you guys

Trev
 
The first two pieces I have no idea what they are. The last one is the "mandrel head" that causes the expansion of the sleeve(for lack of a better word), that holds the rivet in place. The mandrel breaks off of that.
Looking at some of the Pop rivet sites there are many types of blind rivets. Some are multiple piece rivets and my guess is, that is what you have in your hand, the byproducts of a multiple piece rivet. Possibly the head on entering the sleeve, scraped a doughnut piece of the inner wall off, rather than just expanding the walls. Thus leaving a larger space than the head and it has room to "rattle around"???!!! Here is just a selection at one of the sites for blind rivets. You can see how some of the parts might separate once "pulled". I still say that if you want to go back to the original rivets, do it. If not then think about adding the black calk. It will silence the "rattle" and seal them to boot. You might try calling the rivet manufacturer and ask him about your findings.

Bill

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</td> </tr> <tr> <th align="center" valign="bottom" width="10%">OPEN
END</th> <th align="center" valign="bottom" width="10%">CLOSED
END</th> <th align="center" valign="bottom" width="10%">EASY
ENTRY</th> <th align="center" valign="bottom" width="10%">MULTI-
GRIP</th> <th align="center" valign="bottom" width="10%">AVEX®</th> <th align="center" valign="bottom" width="10%">GROOVED</th> <th align="center" valign="bottom" width="10%">TRI-GRIP</th> <th align="center" valign="bottom" width="10%">"Q"
STYLE</th> <th align="center" valign="bottom" width="10%">STRUCTURAL</th> <th align="center" valign="bottom" width="10%">HIGH
STRENGTH</th> <th align="center" valign="bottom" width="10%">"T"
STYLE</th> <th align="center" valign="bottom" width="10%">MATE</th> <th align="center" valign="bottom" width="10%">SPEED
FASTENING®
</th></tr></tbody></table>
 
The first two pieces I have no idea what they are. The last one is the "mandrel head" that causes the expansion of the sleeve(for lack of a better word), that holds the rivet in place. The mandrel breaks off of that.
Looking at some of the Pop rivet sites there are many types of blind rivets. Some are multiple piece rivets and my guess is, that is what you have in your hand, the byproducts of a multiple piece rivet. Possibly the head on entering the sleeve, scraped a doughnut piece of the inner wall off, rather than just expanding the walls. Thus leaving a larger space than the head and it has room to "rattle around"???!!! Here is just a selection at one of the sites for blind rivets. You can see how some of the parts might separate once "pulled". I still say that if you want to go back to the original rivets, do it. If not then think about adding the black calk. It will silence the "rattle" and seal them to boot. You might try calling the rivet manufacturer and ask him about your findings.

Bill

<table class="w01a" border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td align="center" valign="middle">
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</td> </tr> <tr> <th align="center" valign="bottom" width="10%">OPEN
END</th> <th align="center" valign="bottom" width="10%">CLOSED
END</th> <th align="center" valign="bottom" width="10%">EASY
ENTRY</th> <th align="center" valign="bottom" width="10%">MULTI-
GRIP</th> <th align="center" valign="bottom" width="10%">AVEX®</th> <th align="center" valign="bottom" width="10%">GROOVED</th> <th align="center" valign="bottom" width="10%">TRI-GRIP</th> <th align="center" valign="bottom" width="10%">"Q"
STYLE</th> <th align="center" valign="bottom" width="10%">STRUCTURAL</th> <th align="center" valign="bottom" width="10%">HIGH
STRENGTH</th> <th align="center" valign="bottom" width="10%">"T"
STYLE</th> <th align="center" valign="bottom" width="10%">MATE</th> <th align="center" valign="bottom" width="10%">SPEED
FASTENING®
</th></tr></tbody></table>


Thanks Bill

My rivets are the closed end/sealed type. I can't go back to my original rivets due to the colour. So ideally I want to stick with these black rivets and happy to put some sealant (calk) in them to help prevent the rattle.

I just want to check that the rivets are ok though and they that it's not an issue with the rivets being faulty before I carry on?

Trev
 
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