Battery question

Fran Hall RCR · 24th August 2007, 07:48 PM

Does anyone have any experience with these batteries....
12D2000 EP Horizon Battery from Thundersports Racing

Ron Earp · 24th August 2007, 09:05 PM

Not me, but it looks interesting. I'd like to know more about the electrolytics of it. My guess is they've found a specially packaged lead/acid cell that was intended for a high amp hour use and re-badged it for race use.

My dad used to design submersibles and sonar equipment and would always come home with cool batteries, capacitors, magnets, and what not from the stuff at BL and Navy contracts. Some were exotic, especially designed for special uses, draws, etc and others were standard chemistry in a nifty box. I made more than a few go up in smoke.

R

Neal · 25th August 2007, 11:35 AM

I haven't used that particular battery but have been using a Hawker PC680 drycell. I keep a conditioner on it when not in use. Works fine.

Fran Hall RCR · 25th August 2007, 11:44 AM

We are going to package 30 of them in the SLC chassis for an electric vehicle customer.....bloody heavy though .

Scott Calabro · 25th August 2007, 12:00 PM

That mfg. (horizon battery), needs some truth in advertising!

There is NO WAY a $515 battery will supply 1776 amperes @ a nominal 10.5 VDC for 1 minute. I dare say it will not supply its 1 Hr. rate @ 68 amperes!

Our 28VDC SAFT Ni cd's on the Falcon 900EX are 36 amp hr. They cost 11K each there are 2 on board.

Each battery fully top charged will supply this...

1 hr = 36 amps @ 28 VDC
30 min = 72 amps @ 28 vdc
15 min = 144 amps @ 28 vdc
7.5 min = 288 amps @ 28 vdc
3 min 45 sec = 576 amps @ 28 vdc
1 min 52 sec = 1152 amps @ 28 vdc
56 sec = 2304 amps @ 28 vdc

( *note the battery has now melted and ignited all nearby aluminum alloy structure! )

Save your money Fran. Buy an Optima.

If you must have that amount of power @ 12 vdc PM me and I'll build you a 12 vdc aircraft Ni cd. It won't be cheap though!

Cheers,
Scott

Gary Kadrmas · 25th August 2007, 12:14 PM

Help me think throught this.................

Batteries are readily accessable in GT40s. Relativily cheap, opps, inexpensive. So why crank out the big bucks for a throw-a-way item? Just to say you have spent $500 for bloody battery?

Maintain the battery condition, put a volt meter on the car when it is running every once and a while, and you should be good to go. Falls under regular maintenance, right?

Fran Hall RCR · 25th August 2007, 01:05 PM

Gary.....an electric vehicle will require 30 of the units listed (customers preference at this point...not mine)...they would be for a Superlite Coupe too...not a 40

Ron Earp · 25th August 2007, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5150

Our 28VDC SAFT Ni cd's on the Falcon 900EX are 36 amp hr. They cost 11K each there are 2 on board.

<o:p> </o:p>
Now Scott, you of all people should know better than to use anything in the aviation industry for price/performance comparisons.

I submit that the aviation industry is unsurpassed in self-preservation. Any industry that can maintain prices for parts, motors, etc. the way they can has seriously got everything under control!

I'll be interested to see how those batteries perform once Fran gets them wired up.

<o:p></o:p>
<o:p>
</o:p>

Mark Worthington · 25th August 2007, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gt40fran

We are going to package 30 of them in the SLC chassis for an electric vehicle customer.....bloody heavy though .

30 * 57.6 lb = 1,728 lb.

I'd call it a SHC.

Carefull you don't short them out and burn that new shop down.

Fran Hall RCR · 25th August 2007, 02:30 PM

I know...when the customer told me the quantity required I was floored.....for that very reason....

I guess the only good thing is that electric motors basically provide full torque instantly so it may still accelerate quite well.....I hope...

Scott Calabro · 25th August 2007, 05:20 PM

Ron,

5 huge reasons Airplane parts are expensive ...

LAWYERS

MANUFACTURERS LIABILITY INSURANCE

Quality of the parts

You can't pull over and get out!

LAWYERS

Cheers,

Scott

Jac Mac · 25th August 2007, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5150

Ron,

5 huge reasons Airplane parts are expensive ...

LAWYERS

MANUFACTURERS LIABILITY INSURANCE

Quality of the parts

You can't pull over and get out!

LAWYERS

Cheers,

Scott

Once you eliminate 1-2-3 & 5 as non-essential factors whats the problem?

Jac Mac

Joe T · 25th August 2007, 06:25 PM

How come they are using "Lead Acid" batteries, thats milk float technology.
There's stacks on the web about this stuff, but they are not the most efficient, maybe its a safety thing.

Are you putting in a regenerative brake system?? now that racks up the range and make the brakes last for ever.

You should get one over here, their is a lot of interest in this technology and funding is starting to come online for it...............

Cheers

Joe

Fran Hall RCR · 25th August 2007, 06:35 PM

I am doing the rolling chassis and making the battery racks.....

Gary Kadrmas · 26th August 2007, 07:05 AM

Fran,

I appologize for me misreading your post. Polish, age, ect, all of the above.

What can I say but sorry.

Fran Hall RCR · 26th August 2007, 12:05 PM

Joe,

no regen on the first one.....not that I have been made aware of anyway.

This appears to be the first of many alternative power kits we will be building..apair of Superlite Diesel Coupes and Roadsters have been talked about too.....

Gary,

thanks for the apology but not necessary.......(just renew your prescription for your glasses before you drive on the racetrack again.......

)

Kalun D · 27th October 2007, 03:42 AM

A google search yields the manufacture. Some more info on this battery. The link on the racing re-seller you link is dead.

http://www.technologydiamonds.com/ba...izon/index.htm

sort of suspect, this page comes up but all it's links are dead

Isn't nickle metal hydride (NiMH) the latest tech in use for electric vehicles? That's what's in the Honda Hybrids, better power to weight ratio than the Nicad or lead/acid.

Fran Hall RCR · 27th October 2007, 09:26 AM

Kalun,

agreed but the cost vs the technology growth is what has directed my client to lead acid.

He does not want to layout considerable money on the current NiMH and have the technology/price change drastically whilst he sorts out his project...

He figures if we can package the Lead acid batteries then when the time comes for a NiMH upgrade it will be far easier....

Dalton Veitch · 27th October 2007, 09:40 PM

Fran, that approach sound logical. If you use the cheaper option and set up for the worst case, provided it is not totally unworkable (weight, battery sustained output, etc.) then you can improve as it gets refined. Have you looked at what the Toyota Prius uses? It may be named differently over there, and is of course a hybrid, but I've driven them and they shoot up the road quite quickly on battery power alone. Not anywhere near the GT40 bracket, but serious day to day performance. The control technology obviously extends the battery usefulness by recharging from the petrol engine and regenerative braking, but elements of this may be adaptable to your purpose.

Dalton

Eric · 5th November 2007, 01:28 PM

Group Purchase? Lithium Batteries - EV FORUM - ELECTRIC VEHICLE FORUM
If he is into EV's he probably already knows about this goup buy for Lithium Ion batterys being organized. I am curious as to what type of system he would be building though. I am sure he as done his homework but those batteries just sound kind of "off" to me for use in an EV unless he is building a drag race car. They look more like a starting battery and probably wont survive very long in a street driven EV with deep discharge cycles.
Prius uses NiMH good for about 8 minutes total driving if there is no ICE motor assist. You wont find any high capacity NiMH packs available unless you build your own using 10000 individual cells and some sort of fancy managment system. Some company (that is part owned by an oil company, go figure) has a US patent on high capacity NiMH cells and refuses to allow them for sale to anything other than big fleet type buyers (govt, military etc.)
Keep in mind, I am no pro, just have been doing alot of research lately to convert my civic.