Water/oil intercoolers

[Howard Jones]

What do you guys think of these? No need to consider airflow would be a nice plus. I'm thinking I could mount one of these anywhere back in the engine room inline with the coolent tubing and then run the oil lines to it.

Then I can use all the aiflow into the engine room from the side scoops to cool the engine room.

Anybody use one of these? Advice?

http://www.owendevelopments.co.uk/up..._Australia.pdf

[Jack]

Howard,
I have had some experience with water/oil intercoolers on a race car in the past.
You do need sufficient airflow over the cooler for it to work efficiently. While they do work, conventional oil radiators seems to be much more efficient. Any one else care to comment?

[David in Durango]

Ford uses a Luminova unit for police cruisers. IIRC

IFF (if and only if) the cooling system (water) can stand the extra load then I believe it is the way to go.

Rumor is an added advantage is warming the oil faster - I have not tested this.

[Mike Drew]

Laminova is a Swedish company that makes excellent water-to-oil heat exchangers:

oil-coolers - The Laminova heat exchangers - Laminova

These suckers are WAY expensive. Think $300 and up. Available in the USA under the Mocal brand name as well.

Ford contracted with Laminova to have them produce a cooler for use in their heavy-duty applications (taxis, police cars, etc.) from the 1990s, and they turn up in junkyards from time to time. While the internals are the same, the plumbing is specific to the Ford application. Laminova coolers have the water entering from each end, and the oil from the top and bottom. Ford wanted oil lines entering and exiting at one end. They use special flex hoses which snap into the cooler and are thus a bit user-hostile, as it makes it harder to adapt it to another application.

The housing on the Ford unit is cast, rather than the thin sheet aluminum on the normal coolers, and thus seems much more robust.

In practice, the cooler is mounted right at the base of the radiator on the ever-present Ford Crown Victoria. The short oil lines lead to an adapter mounted on the 4.6 block.

They are functionally identical to the $300 units but can be had for $25 or so from a junkyard. Here's a typical one:







I bought several of these and intend to incorporate one into my Pantera...someday. I need to ditch the stock rubber oil line hoses and have the cast housing threaded to accept A/N fittings. Packaging constraints will require me to mount the unit near the radiator, which means looooong oil lines back to the engine. I will probably try to fab up hard lines rather than stringing hoses for five feet. But then again, the long hose solution might just be easier to live with.

I'll have to use a simple sandwich adapter on the block for the oil in/out lines.

Like I said...it's a 'someday' project.

This type of cooler probably won't do a terrific job of knocking off a LOT of oil temperature, but it's certainly a start. At least as useful is the fact that it warms up the oil when the car is first run, as the heat is exchanged the other way.

For more information, let Google be your guide....

[Rich E.]

These guys make a pretty cool heat exchanger. The plate style water cooled oil cooler works really well. They show up on Ebay quite a bit as perishables from nascar teams too.

Radiators « C&R Racing

[David]

Advantages are that they warm the oil as well as cool it. Disadvantage is that you're pumping more heat into the cooling system, if you're already on the edge that could push you over.

As previous posters have written they're used on plenty of production cars. The only real issue apart from the extra heat is that if they fail you get the oil and water mixing with all the results you can imagine.

It seems quite a few GT40's suffer from cooling issues and if you have one that's on the limit I would stick with an oil/air cooler. If yours is fine then go for it.

[Jim Cowden]

I run a water over oil cooler, it is an OEM under the oil filter style unit,its of a cosworth
sierra.
It maybe about 90-100mm in dia and about 50mm deep.

My eng is dry sumped and I hold about 10lt in the tank.
I had an air cooler but needed the space for other stuff.
I was very supprised at the result,it works well.
When I went from a 5lt tank to 10lt tank that also made a big difference.
I think I would go this way if you have oil volume to back it up.
I data log at the track and oil/water are 85-90c all day.
with an under tray oil went to 120c ish from memory.
The under tray has gone,I turned it into a 10lt drysump tank.
My cooling system is efficiant so I maybe at an advantage.

Howard bringing air from under the car works well.I made brake ducts that attached to the lower arms, it dropped brake temps by 100 deg c on the rear brakes.
Just remember if you bring it in you have to get it out.

Hope my experiance helps.

Jim

[Howard Jones]

Jim, I am going to add NACA ducts on the bottom of the car to feed the rear brakes cooling hoses. Much easier packageing.

Mike, I would be interested in one of the exchangers if you have one in excess of needs. I already have a Moroso filter adapter on the motor to tap into the oil system. My SLC water system is layed out ideally to use one. Just exchange one of the pieces of water tubing in the engine room for the exchanger and run the oil lines to it.

I just may do this.

[Mike Drew]

Howard,

Unfortunately, all my coolers are at a friend's house in Sacramento; he was going to go through them and do all the machining to adapt the A/N fittings etc. That was about three years ago.

Gives me an excuse to call him and see if I can light that fire. Will do so now!

[Jac Mac]

Build your own.

[Randy V]

Nice job Jac!

[Howard Jones]

Jac, Ya, I can do that, I was wondering about oil pressure drop. What does the oil passage look like your cooler. Could you tell me a bit about it.

[Jac Mac]

Originally Posted by Howard Jones

Jac, Ya, I can do that, I was wondering about oil pressure drop. What does the oil passage look like your cooler. Could you tell me a bit about it.

Photo has coloured arrows as to oil flow - yellow inward- red out, or vice versa- doesnt matter. Made from 3" od bar stock & 3"od x 0.125" wall tube, plus a bit of 1" x 4" flat bar for end plate with machined AN fittings plus about 6 or 7 O-rings.
Bore thru center for coolant is approx 1.25", oil flow grooves machined in OD of bar and sealed by the 3" x 0.125" wall tube are 0.250" x 0.250"( there are about 20 in total ), since the cross sectional area of the grooves & internal drillings is far greater than that of the -12 fittings used the only restriction is that induced by the changes of direction within the assembled unit. I built it about 6/7 years ago for the TVR after we had two name brand air/oil coolers fail in succession. It has been trouble free, works very well & has the additional advantage of being able to be cleaned completely should you have an engine failure as all parts can be cleaned and inspected visually, unlike conventional cooler elements.

[Howard Jones]

Hummmmmmmmmm....well maybe not QUITE that nice. But I bet I can come up with something. What about a 3 inch diameter pipe with a 1 1/4 inch water pipe running down the middle. Then put the oil into the perimeter outboard pipe at one end and back out the other. If you made it two feet long it would have a lot of surface area to transfer heat from the oil. Simple to build also. Kind of like an accusump with a water pipe down the middle. Too simple?

[Jac Mac]

Originally Posted by Howard Jones

Hummmmmmmmmm....well maybe not QUITE that nice. But I bet I can come up with something. What about a 3 inch diameter pipe with a 1 1/4 inch water pipe running down the middle. Then put the oil into the perimeter outboard pipe at one end and back out the other. If you made it two feet long it would have a lot of surface area to transfer heat from the oil. Simple to build also. Kind of like an accusump with a water pipe down the middle. Too simple?

I doubt the surface area would be great enough to be effective as a cooler if done in that manner... the inner tube is the effective cooling element and its area in your suggestion would only be about 25% of the setup I have.

[Jim Rosenthal]

Just a suggestion- you might look in the marine market for this kind of item, because marine engines use seawater to cool just about everything. The disadvantage would be that there is no premium on weight reduction, so it is likely to be heavier. But if you look at Seaboard Marine in Oxnard, CA, they surplus out a fuel cooler (diesel) which comes on Cummins marine diesels, which is intended to use seawater to cool the diesel going back to the fuel tank, and works very well. If you call them, ask for Tony Athens, the chief and owner. Oil and fuel/water heat exchangers are very common in marine use, and they are rated for hot salt water, which is very corrosive, so they will take anything a race car can throw at them.

[Mike Drew]

Originally Posted by Mike Drew

Howard,

Unfortunately, all my coolers are at a friend's house in Sacramento; he was going to go through them and do all the machining to adapt the A/N fittings etc. That was about three years ago.

Gives me an excuse to call him and see if I can light that fire. Will do so now!

My buddy has just returned to the land of the living, and says he'll have a cooler available for purchase in about a week. Cost for the cooler was $40 from the junkyard, then we bought new seals from Laminova and AN fittings from Summit. He has to machine the cooler to accept the fittings, then will secure them with super-duper hydraulic Lok-tite good to 675 degrees. He'll then pressure-test them to 100 psi.

Howard--it's got your name on it if you want it. I don't know the final cost yet--probably in the $100-125 range....

[Howard Jones]

Mike. Pm sent to you. Could you leave the An fitting un-installed, so I can fit it myself to suit.

[Mike Drew]

Originally Posted by Howard Jones

Mike. Pm sent to you. Could you leave the An fitting un-installed, so I can fit it myself to suit.

Given the nature of the design, the cooler can't accept anything except straight AN fittings. And he needs to be able to pressurize it to test its integrity before it gets handed over, so it needs to have fittings for that. So it will come to you with the fittings installed (semi-permanently), and ready to be plumbed however you see fit.

[Bob Putnam]

Has anyone every seen an exchanger built into the oil pan? Like having many small water tubes running right through the oil, with a water manifold at the end connected to the main water tubes.