Porsche G50 Info

Hey guys,

From an unidentified Ultima builder:


There a two variants of a G50; "long" & "short". The "long" box as the name suggests is longer and will stick out the back on a Sport or Spyder. The "short" box has a transverse mounting at the rear and as the name suggests is slightly shorter.

Porsche changed the design of the release fork in 1988. Pre. mid 1988 the release fork had needle roller bearings inside it ran on a 15mm dia bar. The release bearing guide tube was 34mm dia. After mid 1988, The release fork (now PN 950 116 712 3R) was revised to run on an 18mm dia bar with the bearings in the box at each end of that bar. It is possible to have the box modified by 930 Motorsport, Warrington who have the facility to machine out the 15mm hole to 18mm to accept the new bearings (cost about £100). Also the release bearing guide tube is now 32mm dia. If you do buy a clutch separately, it is a simple matter of modifying the box. TIP: When fitting the box to the engine, tie the release fork to the release bearing using an elastic band. This will hold it in place and allow you to get the pivot bar into the box and will be lost when you start the engine

Always buy a box complete with:

* speedo sender
* pressure plate
* friction plate
* release forks
* driveshaft adaptors
* slave cylinder
* rear mount beam ("short only")

These bits can be expensive to replace.

1987 911 G50s have an 8 digit code stamped in the bottom, for example 'G50/0073H'_'12/00050'

* G50/00 = G50 trans
* 7 = trans for 6 cylinder
* 3 = 5-speed Rest of World; 4= 5-speed USA/Japan/M298)
* H = 1987 model
* 00050 = serial number

A 1988-89 trans has a 12 digit code, such as 'G5000 1 J 00903'

* G5000 = trans type (see below)
* 1 = normal differential (0= no diff, 2= ZF ltd. slip diff)
* J = 1988 model (K= 1989)
* 00903 = serial number

Transmission types:

* G50/00 = 911 Carrera, R.o.W.
* G50/01 = 911 Carrera, USA/CND/J/AUS
* G50/02 = 911 Switzerland (very short gear ratios)
* G50/50 = 911 Turbo world wide, 1989 only
* G50/52 = later Porsche turbo boxes ZF ltd. slip

Visit Powerhaus II for alternative gear ratios for those that want 200mph!


Gear

Transaxle 1 2 3 4 5 Notes
G50/00 3.5 2.059 1.409 1.074 0.861 (after 1988 0.868) Final drive ratio 9:31
G50/01 3.5 2.059 1.409 1.125 0.889 (after 1988 0.892)
G50/02 3.154 1.895 1.333 1.036 0.861 (after 1988 0.868)
G50/03 3.5 2.059 1.407 1.086 0.868
G50/04 3.154 1.895 1.333 1.029 0.868
G50/05 3.5 2.059 1.407 1.086 0.868 Final drive ratio: 3.333:1
G50/10 3.154 1.895 1.407 1.086 0.868
G50/50 3.154 1.789 1.269 0.967 0.756 Beefier internals, differential cover, and case
G50/52 3.154 1.789 1.269 0.967 0.756 Not as strong as G50/50

Transmission and Clutch Overview: G50

In 1987, the G50 gearbox was installed into the Carrera 3.2 911. This transmission used Borg-Warner syncromesh instead of the Porsche-design balk-ring system to improve the shift quality and lessen the effort required to change gears, especially from a stop. These gearboxes were rated at 221 ft/lbs of torque. The G50’s have been utilized with several variations of gearing and speeds. The 993 series was the first 911 offered with a 6-speed version of the G50 design. These later units also introduced significantly improved clutch cooling.

Other versions of the basic design, called the G50/52 series, were used in the 3.3 C2 Turbo and 3.6 C2 Turbo cars. These transmissions also have stronger differentials and cases and a type of Limited Slip differential that locks 20% under power and near 100 % on the overrun to minimize trailing-throttle oversteer. All of the G50 cars use the 240mm clutch size introduced on the earlier Turbo cars and they are now hydraulically actuated.

Ring & Pinions and Limited Slip Differentials

In order to fit a compact transmission with the requisite features in the 911, Porsche uses very steep hypoid angles on the ring & pinion gears. This make these parts, the most highly stressed part of Porsche transmissions. This requires a GL-5 rated lubricant to protect these components against premature failure. Ring and pinions are problematic areas of these transmissions and require careful setup for any G50 used for competition or high-horsepower applications.

Porsche also offered several other ring and pinions for racing including 7:37 and 7:33 ratios. These are not always available due to limited manufacturing qualities. The G50-series used a final drive ratio of 9:31 and the Turbo versions, G50/52 used larger, stronger ring and pinion gears.

If you do decide to change the ring and pinion in your gearbox, make sure that you get the appropriate one for either the mechanical or electronic speedometer.

Porsche has offered the ZF clutch-pack type limited slip differential in almost all 911’s and 930’s since 1966. These units are quite strong and can be set for locking factors of 40% to 80%. The clutches need replacement under racing conditions to maintain proper lockup but these are quite trouble free. An 80% locking factor is difficult to drive on the street, especially in wet conditions, but for open track racing these are quite popular. Street or Autocross usage requires the LSD to be set at 40%; simple to do with the proper parts.

There are now other LSD options for G50 transmissions called Torque-Sensing differentials. These are gear-type units as opposed to the ZF clutch-type ones, and do not require any parts to maintain optimum performance. This unique, patented design allows full differentiation between the wheels as well as providing power to both sides and they produce less understeer than the Factory LSDs. Guard Transmission makes an excellent one as well as the unit from Quaife.

For Autocross and normal street driving, the Torque-Sensing units are more benign in their operation but they do not improve the handing like the Factory clutch-pack units do. The ZF or Guard Transmission LSD's really stabilize the car under braking and help reduce trailing throttle oversteer.

Transmission Modifications for Improved Performance

One of the first things an builder wishing to improve the acceleration of their car should consider is changing gear ratios. The wide gear ratios used by Porsche are a result of designing for street drivability, fuel economy and emissions, not best performance!!

A close-spaced set of gears in any car adds an "effective" 50 HP to the acceleration potential. Reducing the RPM drop each time you upshift keeps the engine in the most productive parts of the torque curve. One must experience this to fully appreciate this effect.

There are several options for shorter gear ratios depending upon usage, tire size and ring & pinion ratio. There are even computer programs that will help you select the proper gear ratios.

G50 Transmission Modifications

These transmissions as used in the Carrera, C2/C4, C2 Turbo and 993-series cars are more expensive to buy gears for, compared to the 915 and 901 units. The availability of gearsets is very good with these units. Porsche’s racing program and the availability of high-quality aftermarket gears make these transmissions very attractive for street & racing applications.

When used with very high torque engines and large rear tires, the ring and pinion assemblies are prone to premature failure. Differential side cover deflection and undersized ring and pinion gears for the power levels are responsible for transmission failures not generally seen in Porsches used for endurance racing to such a degree. Auxiliary cooling and pressurized lubrication systems are necessary in these applications with this transmission. The G50/50-series is probably the strongest of this generation of gearbox although these are 5-speed units.

The Rennsport website has a picture of a G50 6-speed transmission that was extensively modified for the Daytona 24 hour race. This gearbox was used in a 993 3.8 RSR that finished 12th overall and 4th in GT-3. The pressurized lubrication system in the photo provides cooled oil to all gear sets and the differential. This unit also was equipped with a special side cover and custom-made 4th and 5th gears. Needless to say, this was not an inexpensive enterprise due to the number of hours required to accomplish it.

Lubrication Issues

Oils are always a subject of opinion and controversy. Everyone’s opinion is based upon personal experience. G50-series trannys really work well with a full-synthetic gearlube like Mobil 1 or Redline. The Borg-Warner type syncros work better with a real slippery oil. Generally speaking, transmission additives are not recommended besides the LSD improvers sold by GM dealers for the times that you need to eliminate LSD-clutch chatter.

Other gearlubes might be just fine too, but caveat emptor.

I have just touched on this subject. Consulting a gear chart for your transmission will show you what your gear splits are and what you can change. Not all of those gearsets are always available so factor this accordingly. Setting up a transmission for racing or even aggressive street use may be best left for professionals due to the component costs, special tools necessary, and the consequences of a small mistake. Ring and pinions require a special fixture to set the depth and backlash properly.

Since changing gearsets can make a stock engine much more fun to drive, this should be near the top of your performance modification list. Installing a set of close-ratio gears is the equivalent of adding 50 HP to the performance of the car.

Chris
 
Steve,

yes, the Ultimas do go together pretty well.
There is a certain amount of alloy panelling to be done, but they seem a lot less complex than a GT40 kit. (I've not built either - yet, so this is second hand info gleaned from various owners and a lot of reading).

Do a google for 'ultima build' and you should find the build site for a guy here in the uk that fully documented his build.
From memory the only issues he had was the uncoated alloy wheels corroding, and the lights fogging up.
They too have problems with keeping gearboxes together, regardless of the fact that they prefer to use Chevy engines.

Cheers,
John.
 
Wow how did he have the time to type all that info on the ultima build? He has done a great job sharing that info, thanks for the tip on where to look.

Steve
 

Lynn Larsen

Lynn Larsen
Chris and Guys,

Much of verbiage found in the anonymous Ultima builder report can be found on Rennlist Tech Site. I would be careful about the regearing information as it is meant for the 911 and not a pushrod V8 powered car. If anything, I would think that the vast majority of GT40 and Ultima builders would look for slightly higher gearing- the gearing in the G50/50 is almost perfect for general use- and not lower gearing. The lower gearing recommended is to provide greater acceleration out of the corners with the Porsche engine, which admittedly, does not provide the low end grunt of an American V8.

The information on the shift forks and rod diameters is VERY good information. I had known that the shift forks were viewed as a weak point, but never knew exactly why.

Otherwise, this is probably the best compilation of Porsche transaxle information from various sources I have seen; thanks Chris!

Regards,
Lynn
 

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
Understood Lynn, thanks for the heads up. Actually I'm thinking maybe a slightly higher top gear for laid back cruising.
 

Peter Delaney

GT40s Supporter
Chris, that is a "tour de force" in terms of Porsche gearing - invaluable stuff !

Lynn kindly made a gear-speed calculator available to the Forum early last year & I modified it a bit to show km/h and a graph showing the results thru the gears & rev range.

I have played with it quite a bit in the light of my driving experiences with the G50, and have concluded that the standard spacing between the gears looks pretty good, but the standard R&P ratio of 3.44:1 is on the low side. In standard guise, the '40 is a stump-puller in 1st (I very seldom use it in normal driving) & in 5th, I am running 2500rpm at 100 km/h (63mph) - all too low (my old Vette runs around 1900rpm at this speed - much more relaxing for highway cruising). I reckon that an R/P ratio of nearer 3:1 would maintain the spread of gears nicely, & provide a better cruising setup (at the expense of drag-strip & small ciruit racing performance) - it all comes down to horses for courses !

If anyone wants a copy of the modified version of Lynn's spreadsheet, just let me know & I'll attach it to a normal email.

Kind Regards,

Peter D.
 

Lynn Larsen

Lynn Larsen
Pete,

I have heard that there is a company that makes gears for the G50 in Australia and that they make a 5th gear that has a much higher ratio. The upside is that it can be changed by merely pulling the nose case; the down side is that it is a huge jump from 4th to 5th and will feel like an overdrive.

It would be wonderful to have a slightly higher R&P gear for the G50/0x models, but according to my calculations the G50/50 gearing will provide 200mph at the normal SBF redline. With the engine that I am building, which is internally balanced and spec'ed to turn 7200rpm with ease, a speed for which the aerodynamics of the standard Mk I body is not suited will be easily achievable :) An rpm of 2K should provide a comfortable 60mph cruise and 2400rpm will give you 70mph.

Regards,
Lynn

BTW: if you have my gear/speed calculator with the columns at the bottom that give rpms at 60, 45 and X mph, there is an error in the formula for the 45 and X mph columns. Apparently, I fat fingered 5289 for the number of feet in a mile. I will attache the corrected version here.
 

Attachments

  • 61845-GearSpeedCalculatorV2.zip
    4.2 KB · Views: 837
Hey guys - it's incredible what you can find with the internet, I don't know how anyone could assemble this kind of info in the past without making 100 phone calls or mailed letters - great stuff. Yes this was a good post with a lot of details, I wish I could credit the person who wrote it!

Roger at PHII had mentoned the G50 0X boxes are only good for a maximum of 380 lb/ft torque - the usual suspects being the ring and pinion set. With that said through, would there not be less loading on the box considering the weight differences of the 911 an GT40?


Chris
 
Chris

You are right on. Simple box ratings are only a part of the equation. Obviously the "shock" loading placed by wide sticky tires vs narrow street tires makes a big difference,
as well as vehicle weight, clutch disc, etc.

I don't know if these other variables can be accurately converted into "factors" to determine
box margin in one vehicle vs another.
But common sense (and some field experience)
tells me a major vehicle weight reduction = a major reduction
in stress to the tranny.

MikeD
 

Lynn Larsen

Lynn Larsen
Mike and Chris,

You are both right in my book and one needs to look no further than the years of successful employment of the Renault transaxles in England for proof.

As to R&P weakness in the G50-0x boxes, an oil cooler with the return pointed at the R&P will go a long way to alleviating this as an issue in any transaxle, but especially in Porsche gearboxes. A stronger side plate is an inexpensive piece of insurance as well.

Regards,
Lynn
 

Peter Delaney

GT40s Supporter
Thanks Lynn, I have reworked my version of your spreadsheet & have added the option to simply select standard ratios for the G50/50 or the G50/00. It is interesting that whilst the final R/P ratios are the same, there is quite a bit of difference in the individual gear ratios.

The overall ratios for the G50/50 seem to pretty-much on the button, but the G50/00 ones are uniformly too low. AS I mentioned, the spread seems ok on the G50/00, so I'll have a chat to Albin Gears to see if there is a simple R/P change-out available.

I'll have a go at adding the new spreadsheet as an attachment.

Kind Regards,

Peter D.
 

Attachments

  • 61911-GearSpeedCalculator(PeterD).zip
    9.9 KB · Views: 757
Thanks for that Excel file Peter! I believe PHII also said that there is someone (can't remember who) makes a ring gear with a lower tooth count that would bring the final diff ratio to 3:10. Also made 30% stronger to handle more torque.

1989 Porsche 911 Carrera 2 weight is 2976 lb if anyone cares to try and figure out the differnce in loading on the box vs the 40 - didn't find the weight ratio-

Chris
 
Hmmmmmm - I think I'll find out what my G50 03 can handle first before I go and spend more - I'm only building my 289 engine to approx 400 hp so I'm hoping that I won't need to get into anything more than a trany cooler and a few other mods to keep the gears bathed in fluid.

Chris
 
Chris,

I'm with you on that! I'll keep on testing until something breaks. I haven't broken my G50-01 yet with 425HP(350RWHP), and it's not for lack of trying! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I did manage to blow the springs right out of a clutch disc a while back though./ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif


Bill
 
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