Automatic ZF?

John Fitzpatrick · 12-09-05, 02:13 PM

Being a wheel chair person, I drive a car with an automatic transmission. I know the Hall Chaparall utilized a two speed manual transmission with a torque converter, making it essentially an automatic. Is there any way to do that with the ZF 5 df/ SB ford combination?
Thanks,
John

Hershal Byrd · 12-09-05, 08:56 PM

John,
I know that Roaring Forties has fitted an Audi automatic to a GT. I believe it was also for a wheel chair person. I see no reason why an Audi auto wouldn't work. Is there a specific reason you need a ZF?

Hersh [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Howard Jones · 12-09-05, 09:54 PM

Hersh, I think a lot of people would at least be interested in more information on the Auto Audi install. I would at least like to know a little more about it. Does anyone have any pictures? How much was the chassis changed? Could it be done with different mounts and brackets or did require cutting and welding.

Hershal Byrd · 12-10-05, 12:12 AM

Howard,
I think everything is the same as the manual shift as far as the install. The only thing that you would need to add is a trans cooler. I looked at a automatic and a manual sitting side by side. The phisical deminsions are very close. The output shafts are the same. I will see if there are any pictures to post. I don't know if any were taken. I saw the trans in the factory when I was there I never saw the car..

Hersh [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

John Fitzpatrick · 12-10-05, 11:14 AM

I asked about the ZF because that's what's in the Lotus I've been restoring for quite a few years. When I started the restoration I could have driven it, and I'd still like to if there's a way.
John

Hershal Byrd · 12-10-05, 12:21 PM

John,
Nice setup ! I see what you mean. There just maybe someone here on this forum that might know how to rig a system that does what you need. There are several members on this site that are engineers. They are always looking for a challenge. Perhaps they can advise you as to which way to go.

Hersh [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

PS...Joun, show us some photos of that Lotus [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

David York · 12-10-05, 03:51 PM

How about a hydraulic clutch operated off a hand control like a bike lever mounted on the Shifter. I have seen a few harleys done like this on suicide shifters. You could even have a shift cutout whitch so you could bang the gears going up without a clutch.

Would be much easier and more fun than a Auto.

John Fitzpatrick · 12-10-05, 04:01 PM

Herch-
Okay. It's a 47GT which originally had the 2Liter Lucas fuel injected twincam. The current engine/transaxle are from a Lotus 30 and identical to the early GT40s. The swap was made in '69 by an Englishman who wanted to emulate Carroll Shelby.

Hershal Byrd · 12-10-05, 06:08 PM

John,
That's what I like about this site..every once in awhile somebody like you comes along with a real neat project. That is a very rare lotus I believe. It sure looks to be in exellent condition.

Hersh [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

ErnestH · 12-10-05, 07:35 PM

John check with some of the handicap companys that outfit cars,
there are some that do retrofits on personal cars. they might be
able to help you out with what you want to do.

Howard Jones · 12-10-05, 07:56 PM

Hersh, Do you remember if the older Audi's require any computer control? This would be the basic problem with most current auto's I would think.

I guess a guy could use a V8 audi with the auto that is used with it along with the computer and harness for the car. Big project but I bet it would be a really cool car.

BenL · 12-11-05, 01:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
It's a 47GT which originally had the 2Liter Lucas fuel injected twincam. The current engine/transaxle are from a Lotus 30 and identical to the early GT40s. The swap was made in '69 by an Englishman who wanted to emulate Carroll Shelby.

[/ QUOTE ]
I wonder if he was also inspired by the GKN 47D, which was a 47 that Lotus built for GKN in 1968 with a Rover V8 engine and a ZF transaxle from a Lotus 49.

GKN wanted the car to show off the manufacturing capabilities (castings (block), fasteners, half-shafts, push rods, ...).

When it was completed, the car was tested at 0-100 in 10 seconds.

Phil · 12-11-05, 02:13 PM

John
I had a customer who had a BMW coupe wit a 5 speed. He installed a kit with a vacuum operated clutch release with a control on the shifter...I never drove it but he seemed to have no trouble operating the hand throttle and clutch engagement off the shifter. I would assume this setup could be adapted to any vehicle. I will try and call him and see if there is any info available
Cheers
Phil

John Fitzpatrick · 12-11-05, 09:33 PM

Phil-
I'd thought about putting a clutch button on the shift lever, but I don't know a good way to actuate the throtle from the stick. I've seen pictures of a formula car with motorcycle style controls on the steering wheel, but that works only as long as you keep the wheel movement to 1/4 turn or so.

With standard hand controls you have a lever that sticks out from the steering column, like the turn indicator, that you move forward-back to brake and up-down to accelerate; you steer with the other hand. To be safe, you really need to be able to keep one hand on the wheel at all times, which means for a manual you'll have to operate the throtle, brake, clutch, and shift with the other. Not out of the question, but certainly a non-trivial engineering exercise.

If there was a way to use an electric switch to bump shift up or down one gear at a time, that might work if you could sequence the clutch somehow.

I still have a year's worth of work left to do, so I can hold off on the transmission a bit longer, but I'm hopping there is a way...otherwise,I'm going to complete it as a standard, hire someone to drive me once Lime Rock really, _really_ fast, sell it and buy a V12 E Jag with all power, auto, and air [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
John

Scott McDill · 12-12-05, 10:28 AM

"5-speed synchro box, ZF transaxle model 5DS-25-2
This gearbox has a custom-made sequential shifting mechanism that is pneumatically operated and computer controlled"
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/sequential-gearbox.htm
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm...net/962/p2.html

PATGT40 · 12-12-05, 10:46 AM

John,
That is a very nice engine transaxle combination. Looks to be -1 ZF box with the aluminum GT40 side covers and correct top cover. Its hard to tell from the picture but the bell housing looks to be from a GT40 as well.

Chris_K · 12-12-05, 01:27 PM

If that pic comes from where I think it does, he seems to be one talented bastard. Just went and scratch-built himself some 962's, apparently with dimensionally interchangeable parts with the originals as well.

Click HERE for his web page.

Chris

John Fitzpatrick · 12-12-05, 02:58 PM

Patrick-
Yes, it is a –1 and the bellhousing has the letters “GT 40” cast inside. The intake is a FoMoCo. I don’t know if you can trace it’s origin from the serial numbers, but I’ll post a pic of the tag. The engine block is not the original.

That is an awesome mod on the ZF, Scott —I’ll try to get in touch! Thanks for the links.

John

Ross Nicol · 12-12-05, 07:00 PM

Hi John
I would take your 2nd option and sell the Lotus as a manual after you have the fun of completing it.
my reasoning is- Nobody will want the car with your automation and you will long have over capitalized it.You obviously would like the comfort of a V12 Jag and why go to all the trouble when your going to sell it anyway.I have just fitted a 20 valve Toyota motor to an S2 Europa and total project will top out at no more than $20,000.These cars don't carry the value of a GT40 so don't pour a heap of money in you'll never get back, unless you've got plenty to throw around and don't care.I have also found the Lotus harder to get into than the GT40 so I reckon you would have trouble
in this department.Just my 2 cents worth.

Ross

John W · 12-12-05, 07:20 PM

John,
a friend of mine whi is disabled had a baby elan converted for him, and drove it like this for many years.
He had one good(ish) leg, which he used for the clutch.
The throttle had an extra cable that came up to a lever located behind the steering wheel. This was very similar to the paddles you see the new DSG style boxes using. It was on the right side of the wheel (rhd car) and shaped in an arc for about 120 degrees of the wheel.
He had another lever next to the gear lever which operated the brake.

I can tell you that it made for some very entertaining driving as he switched between braking and changing gear !!
Still, he drove his elan like this for 15 years that I knew him, and he had had the car for many years before that.

There are many hydraulic and electronic actuators available now. Another friend of mine had a stroke and lost the use of his right arm. He had a motorcycle converted to a trike with a left hand throttle, and thumb actuated gear selection.

I'd suggest doing a good web search as I'm sure you could automate your current box, and so keep the ability to put it back to standard when the time comes.

Hope that helps,
John.