Aligning Motor and 016 Transaxle

DMatt · 04-05-06, 09:45 PM

Has anyone here found a way to check alignment of the 016 transaxle to the motor? In a regular manual transmission application you simply use a dial indicator to check the bell housing so the input shaft of the transmission is square to the crank. I do not see a way to do that with a transaxle. Even with the oil pan off, I still do not see a way to check.

Any ideas?

jdinner · 04-06-06, 12:28 AM

What about using a plexiglass template bolted to the bellhousing to find center The input shaft is slightly outboard of the bellhousing. Drill a hole in the plexi that fits the input shaft perfectly. Slip it over the input and then trace the bell housing bolt holes. Transfer everything to the motor using a pilot shaft that has been custom made to fit the crank and the center aligning hole of the plexi.
Just a thought,

Jim

Howard Jones · 04-06-06, 02:21 PM

How about doing the crank to the mating surface of the adapter plate, and then the input shaft to the mating surface of the gearbox. Both should of course be 90 degrees.

Then turn some extra bolts that would fit into the gearbox mounting holes in the adapter plate in a lathe until they have a very sharp point on one end. Keep them short and screw them all inplace. Do the same with a larger bolt to fit the spigot bearing hole. Measure up everything from each bolt point to the center of crank via the sharp point on the spigot bolt point and record the angle from vertical. A little geometry and walla!

You can determine the angle by using a cam degree wheel centered on crank center and aligned vertically with a plumb bob through the center-line of the crank.

A lot of work but this will aline the adapter plate on center with the crank. You could stop here if you believe the bell-housing and gearbox are on center. But then you will be having so much fun at this point why stop now!

Then do the same with the mating surface of the gearbox/ bell housing. More geometry and you will have the difference of the two centers and their respective angle to center. Walla again!

The better you measure the better this will work. If you end up within the clearance tolerance of the spigot bearing and you are at 90 degrees on everything then you are good to go.

Never thought you would use that geometry did you?

DMatt · 04-06-06, 09:32 PM

That seems like it might work. I don't know about the walla part though. The locating pins in the Ford block are larger than the holes in the adapter plate that RF supplied so I want to make sure evrything stays nice straight after I drill them out.

I'm sure RF got it close from the factory, but it is to important not to at least check.

What made you think of doing it this way????

Ron Earp · 04-06-06, 09:51 PM

Hey Dan,

I didn't check that thing to be honest. But, it seemed to fit really snug, as in I had to knock it off the block with a dead blow hammer. Any chance the dowels on the block are different?

Ron

DMatt · 04-07-06, 05:52 AM

Hey Ron,

I guess it's possible. I just checked the dowel and it's 1/2". It seemed like it didn't want to go on so I did not force it. Could you check your dowels?

Ron Earp · 04-07-06, 08:47 AM

Hey Dan,

My block no longer has any pins in it since it was sent out last summer for netural balancing etc. and was torn down, but the holes were the dowel pins were is 1/2". I think you'll just need to hang it up there and persude it on the block.

RF had well-designed components and it should go on properly. It was a non-issue as I remember mating and unmating the transaxle, and if I can do it then you will be good to go.

Ron

Howard Jones · 04-07-06, 02:08 PM

DMATT, This is the way you make a adapter plate to begin with. So I kinda reversed the process. I'm not really sure if it is the easiest way, it probably isn't, but I really can't think of another way to take a reading off the input shaft in relation to the crank with it all put together.

If someone knows how I would love to hear it. There must be a easier way I just don't know it. The only other thing I could come up with would be to put it together without the flywheel and clutch. Maybe there would be enough room to dial indicate thing up from below through the flywheel cover plate. Here I'm talking about a Renault install because that's what I am familiar with.

Another thing that might work would be to put it together with clay packed into the spigot bush hole. Then try and get some idea of clearance after removing the gearbox and inspecting the resultant new hole in the clay. This one probably won't work but maybe someone might get a idea from it that will work. How about painting the input shaft with something that is removable and thick enough to leave a "tell". Then having a look at interference marks after?

Dave Decker · 04-08-06, 01:23 AM

Hey Dan. Here's my 2 cents worth. I don't have a suggestion for the process of checking the runout, but when I did mine it was out by about 10 thou. Lakewood makes a set of offset dowel pins. There are .007 and .014 pins. These were for a SBC but chances are they make them for Ford too. Cheers, Dave

DMatt · 04-08-06, 09:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Dan. Here's my 2 cents worth. I don't have a suggestion for the process of checking the runout, but when I did mine it was out by about 10 thou. Lakewood makes a set of offset dowel pins. There are .007 and .014 pins. These were for a SBC but chances are they make them for Ford too. Cheers, Dave

[/ QUOTE ]

Howard and Dave,

That is what I'm trying to check. The problem is how to get at it to check it. Howards Idea seems like it will get it close if done properly but I want to check it with the dial indicator on the parts I'm working with. I have used the offset pins before and they work great. The trouble here is I can't get to it to check. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]

Eric A. · 04-09-06, 12:14 PM

If your plate design will allow try this: Install the plate on the engine and mount your dial indicator onto the end of the crank and check to see that the center hole in the plate is centered on the crank. Then install the plate on the transaxle and do the same by mounting the dial indicator on the input shaft of the transaxle, you may have to make something to mount the indicator there. If they are both centered then when you install the transaxle onto the engine everything should line up. I hope this helps.

Ron Earp · 04-09-06, 12:24 PM

Dan are you worried about your tranny shaft having runout or that the adapter doesn't line up? I didn't have any trouble getting the transmission on the engine with that plate, I think it worked well.

Howard Jones · 04-10-06, 10:52 PM

I like Eric's idea. Kinda the same as mine but with less measurements. You could make a "mounting plate" to mount the dial indicator on that uses the existing engine mounting holes in the adapter plate. Then measure twice like Eric recommends. If the "mounting plate" goes on in the same location both times then your resulting data should be very good.

DMatt · 04-11-06, 09:26 PM

Thanks for the ideas guys.

Once again I tried to make something easy look hard. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img] After laying under the car trying to figure out how to put some of your ideas into action I figured out how to do it with ease.

All I have to do is get a hole saw and cut a circle to the diameter of the rear main bearing and slide it in the hole, slide it tight against the transaxle shaft and see if it lines up, and WALLA! Right now the block and the transaxle are mocked up into place in the car. I'll pull them out and set them on the work bench where I can get to it easily. Should be a piece to cake!

flatchat(Chris) · 04-11-06, 09:54 PM

If your adapter plate has been machined with the correct coordinates from the crank axis for the bolt and dowel holes of the motor and trans., it should align and fit-- give or take a thou or two (which is like a nanometer to a bricklayer [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])
PM me if you need thes dims.--- for a bottle of your finest bourbon [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif[/img]

flatchat(Chris) · 04-12-06, 05:59 PM

Ahem !

flatchat(Chris) · 04-13-06, 09:52 AM

Or, engage NC for bolt and dowel coordinates --crank axis @ XY'O'
L1 X - 7.745" Y - 1.31" drill 15/32"
L2 X - 7.22" Y - 2.9" ream .500"
L3 X - 6.66" Y - 4.25" drill 15/32"
L4 X - 2.55" Y - 8.43" drill 15/32"
L5 X + 2.55" Y - 8.43" drill 15/32"
L6 X + 6.88" Y - 3.88" drill 15/32"
L7 X + 7.74" Y - 2.9" ream .500 "
L8 X + 8.25" Y - .44" drill 15/32"

6 bolt Windsor blocks

..........Y-

X+<---O--->X-

..........Y+

(1st neat correct entry wins) ? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Ron Earp · 04-13-06, 11:13 AM

Hey Dan,

do you think the plate doesn't line up correctly with the block? Just wondering as I didn't have a problem with it and I know of nobody else that has gone through this for alignment either - not that this isn't a good thing to check though!

Ron

DMatt · 04-13-06, 05:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Dan,

do you think the plate doesn't line up correctly with the block? Just wondering as I didn't have a problem with it and I know of nobody else that has gone through this for alignment either - not that this isn't a good thing to check though!

Ron

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Ron,

I don't think I have a major problem. I am going to have a big investment in my 016 by the time I'm done with it and I want to make sure it is aligned properly. I noticed the shaft on my 016 does not have hardly any play in it, thus the reason for accurate fit. I would feel terrible if I ruined a transaxle because I didn't check it first.