some advice about clutchtype

frank beuker · 09-11-06, 07:53 AM

I'm in the need of some advice
I'm choosing between a single plate ap clutch and a double plate clutch by ap
i've got a 302 with 455bhp and 8200 rev's it's going on a zf
i'll be driving it mainly on the road but i'm planning to use it also on trackday's
does anyone know the max power on a singleplate clutch or some experience?

Frank

Lynn · 09-11-06, 08:28 AM

Frank,

If I had it to do all over again, I would have searched high and low for a twin disc unit to work with my G50/50; you get close to twice as much clamping force with very little increase in the force required to disengage. There are single plate clutches that will easily handle your engine, BUT they tend to be very binary (they are either engaged or disengage with very little, if any, in between) and they tend to make your left leg several inches in diameter larger than you right. That is exactly why I would, in retrospect, go for the twin disc.

Just read some of the feedback on the new Ford GT with its twin disc clutch. To a person, those who have mentioned it, have said they love it; at least those that I have read have said this.

Regards,
Lynn

emiel · 09-11-06, 05:07 PM

Frank,I would seriously consider the double clutch assembly.easier on your left leg certainly in heavy traffic on the road.

Sandy · 09-11-06, 05:44 PM

Frank -

What size clutch can you use on the car? If you can use a standard size ford (10.5" as I recall) you can use most anything. I have been running a McLeod single disk (Dual Friction type) and a late 5.0 Mustang style diaphram cover in the 65 Mustang which is running about 7500rpm and about 560hp (Heaver car too). Pedal pressure is not all that bad and has been in the car for 2 years. A friend used the Mcleod Duel disk (Street Twin I think they call it). Had so-so results, it was a bit grabby and he used a very light flywheel so it was a pain to drive, still worth a look if you can fit it in the zf's housing. Also if you want a hard core racing clutch you can go the route of Tilton and Quarter Master. They make a bunch of duel/triple packs but as mentioned they are on/off and the stack height may be too tall for a short depth housing, and they arn't have much use at all on the street and are a bit more tricky to set up.

You might also find someone that can talk more about disk friction materials. Much improvements over the years, in the RCR I am running an simple organic disk with a somewhat stiff cover, motor will run 600hp at 8000rpm. That is with a 930 sized disk. If that get toasted, will likely try one of the Carbon or Kevlars but don't know much about them. Will have to see how that works out...

Lastly you might have some juggling room with your clutch slave/master. You might be able to change the master (smaller) to require a bit less pedal pressure at the expense of a bit more motion. Pedal and rod ratios might also be looked at.

HTH

Sandy

frank beuker · 09-11-06, 05:59 PM

thank's for the advice
Sandy i've got a original style bellhousing and do not know exactly the diameter but i've got the choise between a single and a double plate clutch from ap racing
which both will fit and the double has got special plates with it also for road use

Sandy · 09-11-06, 06:24 PM

Frank -

Don't know much about the AP setup's but a call to the tech folks (if you can find them) should be a good path. Might also find out what could be used from a singe setup to later upgrade to the duel disk if you need it.

Another thing you might seek out on the web is what the Pantera folks are running with the ZF. Many of them run crazy hp and likely have some suggestions on clutch stuff as well.

Sandy

Ross Nicol · 09-11-06, 07:07 PM

I have a single plate 10.5" scintered friction plate with a pressure plate fitted with uprated springs. I have the Mcleod internal hydraulic slave cylinder and had to install it hard back against the face of the ZF and it only just fits, so watch out for that one Frank.I changed from an organic plate to the scintered iron when race standing starts and tall gearing caused major slipping. I got a triple plate AP with the new motor but decided not to use it. (why change something that is proven to work). I have a 7/8" master cylinder and as Sandy indicated may reduce this to 3/4" because it is a very heavy pedal. I pinned the pipes to the internal slave cylinder against th ZF front face too after the pressure plate bolts chewed through one of them. What I'm saying is there's not a lot of room in the ZF bell housing so check,check and check again. The scintered friction plate has central springs and is not bad driving around the street, quite surprised me really.
Ross

frank beuker · 09-12-06, 11:27 AM

I orderd a single plate after speaking to frank catt
he told me that we can only use a 9,5 inch clutch and he's got a few racing with single plate with the same power so what's good enough for them should be good enough for me

Sandy · 09-12-06, 11:35 AM

Glad you got is sorted out now all I have to do is figure out how to spell Dual

Sandy

frank beuker · 09-12-06, 12:22 PM

you're never to old to learn
and don't forget its a difficult word

cheers
frank

andys · 09-13-06, 12:04 PM

The attached photo's are of an 8 1/2" single disc clutch assembly good for about 375-400lb-ft. Friction material is bronze/ceramic.

Andy

frank beuker · 09-13-06, 12:14 PM

looks great

Sandy · 09-13-06, 12:37 PM

The disk like the QM pictured I'm guessing would not be at all good for street driving (with some track). I had a triple 7.25" pack like those from tilton and gave them a call before setting it up. The said that it would operate like a light switch, then asked me if I had a winch for my race car to get it into the trailer

, they are not at all tollerent of slipping he mentioned. He convinced me to move to one of the 'Dual' cerametalic's which is a bit better and has bonded material (Much thicker hence only a 2 disk pack) then a sprayed on metalic friction material. He said that heat from slipping is a problem causes warping of inner plates, as well as rapid wear of which their is not much material.

Sandy

andys · 09-13-06, 01:42 PM

Sandy,

I am of course concerned about street manners. QM's tech staff opined that this particular setup (though it will employ a spring center hub on the disc, not the solid center pictured) will be streetable; a bit touchy but completely tolerable. We'll see. Most high performance and race clutches are sans the Marcel spring. It is my belief that the Marcel is what aids greatly in driveability on the street. The only multi-disc experience I have is with race cars. From that, I know the clutch is more or less on/off in terms of engagement. It would be nice to have the engagement modulation along with the ease of pedal effort in a multi-disc.

Andy