SBF What transaxle?

Randy · 21st January 2008, 07:57 PM

I am looking into mounting a SBF 302-351 into a small space. I need a trans axle like the thm325 gm that mounts to a sbc. This transaxle mounts to the sbc and then comes back under the motor so the cv axles are about middle ways of the block. Is there a ford version of this? I have a kellison gt body and it will mount on a Fiero with not much work at all. Same wheel base and width. I know fiero is not the chassie of choice but i have both of these laying around. I can put the sbc and thm325 in with no problem at all but would like to use a ford motor. I also have a 302 laying around.

Thanks for any info. Randy

Ryan · 23rd January 2008, 11:49 AM

To be honest sir, I do not believe I know of such a transaxle ever being produced. Ford never made a late model FWD V8 like the old Toronado's and such of GM.

Ron McCall · 23rd January 2008, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69valkyrie

To be honest sir, I do not believe I know of such a transaxle ever being produced. Ford never made a late model FWD V8 like the old Toronado's and such of GM.

Actually I think that there are some later Lincoln Continentals with 4.6L V8 and AX4N transaxles.

Ron Earp · 23rd January 2008, 06:22 PM

And I think the one that Ron refers to is the same that was used in the SHO, or a variant of the AX4N. Not sure but seems I remember that. Probably a trip to one of the SHO forums would help you.

In fact, a SHO motor would be a pretty sweet motor in a Fiero. They make a lot of power. The later SHOs had a small V8, 3.4L I think.

Ron

Randy · 23rd January 2008, 07:58 PM

That would be a great motor to put in this project. I can get my hands on plenty of late model mustang v8s. The fiero dosen't have much space to mount a v8 long ways and still be able to hook up a transaxle and keep it center to the cv axles. The 350 and thm325 trans will work great but having a kit that somewhat favors a gt40 it would be nice to keep a ford in it.

Ron Earp · 23rd January 2008, 08:30 PM

I'm not sure there is a lot out there for the 3.4L Ford V8, but the V6 SHO is extremely well known and the four valve head a proven performer.

As usual Wiki is helpful. The V8 went on in the Volvos and undoubtedly you could find these to use.

Ford Yamaha V8 engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And the original SHO would be a great engine for a Superlight Roadster.

Ford SHO V6 engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ron McCall · 23rd January 2008, 09:22 PM

I believe the SHO uses a different bellhousing than the Lincoln V8 .Basically the same trans otherwise...
I may be able to take a picture of one tomorrow.I'll see if we have one in stock.

Jac Mac · 23rd January 2008, 09:32 PM

Save yourself some $$ and buy the adapters that allow the SBF rocker covers to be fitted to a Bo Tie, even that small change will help the chebbie feel better. Gonna be tight fit though, I have watched another gent try to fit a Buick V6/Hewland in a Fiero [ from a distance thank goodness ] for the last 12 months, looks like a major exercise to me, so the SBC is going to add 4.38" of harder to do to the job.

Jac Mac

TonyM · 24th January 2008, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jac mac

Save yourself some $$ and buy the adapters that allow the SBF rocker covers to be fitted to a Bo Tie, even that small change will help the chebbie feel better. Gonna be tight fit though, I have watched another gent try to fit a Buick V6/Hewland in a Fiero [ from a distance thank goodness ] for the last 12 months, looks like a major exercise to me, so the SBC is going to add 4.38" of harder to do to the job.

Jac Mac

A Chevy V8 in a Fiero is no big problem, there are plenty of adapter kits for this and it is an easy swap...check out V-8 Archie (who also does the GT4T body kit described as "A totally accurate Mark I body mounted to a specially modified Fiero chassis". Although I have never seen a Ford V8 put in one, the others on the forum might be right in saying try a complete SHO engine/trans unit. The V6 should fit no problem and it would be a Ford (well kind of as the heads are Yamaha design) and can be tuned to give some excellent power, the only thing I'm not sure about is how the driveshafts would line up. Also, there were some issues with earlier SHO transmissions failing. I had mine replaced twice with under 30,000 miles.

Cheers,

Jac Mac · 24th January 2008, 02:58 AM

I was under the impression that Randy wished to mount the motor inline rather than sideways to keep with the GT40 theme. The back & under trans as per GM & Toronado/Caddy will present there own problems of placing the motor higher as well, just as the Audi etc transaxles do with the CWP below the input shaft. In the Fiero I mentioned the installation was inline & a very tight fit with the V6/Hewland transaxle - a V8 would have reqd a wheelbase extension.

TonyM · 24th January 2008, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jac mac

I was under the impression that Randy wished to mount the motor inline rather than sideways to keep with the GT40 theme. The back & under trans as per GM & Toronado/Caddy will present there own problems of placing the motor higher as well, just as the Audi etc transaxles do with the CWP below the input shaft. In the Fiero I mentioned the installation was inline & a very tight fit with the V6/Hewland transaxle - a V8 would have reqd a wheelbase extension.

Yep, probably shouldn't respond to things at 2:00 am...bed would have been a better option...

Thanks,

domtoni · 25th January 2008, 08:47 AM

From the bit I know, a SBC bolts right up to the Fiero transmission, and they are cheap. The Fiero was originally designed with a SBC motor before Chevrolet stopped Pontiac from selling the car in that configuration.

Probably better to sell the Ford motor.

I know Wheel to Wheel Powertrain did a car late last winter for someone. You can find them in Madison Heights Michigan.

Ron Earp · 25th January 2008, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jac mac

I was under the impression that Randy wished to mount the motor inline rather than sideways to keep with the GT40 theme. .

You are correct, my bad.

I like Fieros and I think keeping them Fieros can make a lot of sense. There are a few racing in the SCCA and they do fairly well although the class has little in the way of motor mods.

I can't help but think if the money spent to do all of this sort of work on them was used to improve the suspension and work with an easily packagable GM motor, like the blown 3.8L V6, you'd have a hell of a sports car.

Randy · 27th January 2008, 10:36 PM

I've been sercing the web the last few days and found alot of info on mounting a sbf to different transmissions. You have alot of options if you mount it transverse but I would like to mount it long ways as I stated in my first post. You can do this with a sbc and the 325/425 trans axle. As I said before this transaxle comes back under the block so you have room for this mount and keep the cv axles lined up. Just can't find a ford trans like this. I did find a link but i can't find it again about someone who mounted a sbf to a gm th325 transaxle? This would be the same as the sbc mount and keep the cv axles lined up. By using an early 302/351 with a carb and the gm th325 you would not need any computer and special wiring. Also getting a adapter plate made to mount the ford block to the gm trans would not be a big deal. You would have to use the torque convertor for the gm trans. The other prob would be the flexplate. This wound be the mount up between the ford and chevy. You would need to have a flexplate that would fit the ford crankshaft bolt holes and the chevy torque convertor holes. As long as everything fit inside the chevy bellhousing it should work? You would aslo need to fab a pilot bushing. no big deal. Now this is alot of work but it is worth it to me to have a ford motor in this kind of kit.This all seems to easy. What am i missing?

Jac Mac · 27th January 2008, 11:41 PM

"" What am I Missing ""

You are missing the understanding the detrimental effect the Higher mounting of the engine will have on your C of G and the handling of your car.

Randy · 27th January 2008, 11:50 PM

It should mount up just like the kits for the sbc. A little tail heavy but everyone I've talked to with this swap sez its really not a problem. I just found a kit on the tci site. Has the flexplate, adapter and all hardware to mount a ford to a chevy trans. This looks like what i have been looking for.

Eric A. · 28th January 2008, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loctite

It should mount up just like the kits for the sbc. A little tail heavy but everyone I've talked to with this swap sez its really not a problem. I just found a kit on the tci site. Has the flexplate, adapter and all hardware to mount a ford to a chevy trans. This looks like what i have been looking for.

The Toronado/Eldorado drivetrain has been used in kit cars for some time. It is very heavy and puts the engine too high and actually has more weight behind the axle line than in front. I have spoken to several people with this installation and they all said it is very tail heavy and the handling suffers alot. Using the SBF would help with the excess weight but you still have the high mounted motor with its high CG and the rear weight bias. Some Lambo builders have turned this around and moved the differential, and flipped it, to get the weight more to the front.