Renault transaxle flippable?

[Ian K]

So, I've been digging around, just because it has always been a question I
feel was never really answered. Is the Renault UN1/369 flippable so that the
engine could be lowered and improve the center of gravity? I ask because
the DeLorean used a 369, but in a rear engine configuration, and it appears
to be oriented right way up.

Ian

[MikeP]

Kevin Farrington in the UK has a GTD with a Renault box which is flipped over.
Cheers
Mike

[Ian K]

Thanks Mike.

Do you know if he has a presence here? I wonder what issues he
ran into flipping it over, as well as if he has done any plumbing
for cooling lines.

Thanks again,

Ian

[Kev Farrington]

Hi Ian,
I`ve had an inverted R30 box in my car since I built it. The bellhousing is shaped to allow the diff to be reversed. Alpine GTA models run this way. If you can find one of these then that job is already done for you. Any questions just ask. It was over 15 years ago when I did it so it might test my memory but I`ll try my best. Cheers for now.
Kev Farrington

[Kev Farrington]

Hi Ian,
A quick answer to the questions you started with. The first problem was what oil level to run, what to do about a breather and whether I needed an oil cooler. I had to experiment because nobody else that I know of had done this before. I overdid the oil initially but the box kindly removed what it didnt need via the breather. The breather needs some careful thought and it took a while to get it to work right but it works fine now. I initially ran with an oil cooler and pump but have removed them now with no apparent problem with the use I put the car to, ie road use. Cheers, Kev.

[Ian K]

Thanks for the info Kev, I'll keep it in mind.

I am still debating which path I will go down when the time comes, but
a used GTD, or even an unfinished one, is still a possibility. And so many
of those still have Renault transaxles. So, I am always looking into options.
One interesting option is flipping an R21 or similar (anyone running an
R26/7 out of a Lotus Esprit?), and seeing if the 6 spd set up that is sold
through Andy Sheldon/Tornado would be viable. This presents some interesting
possibilites in that you have an inverted box for lower cg, a compact 6 spd
set up (ZF and G50 series 6 spds are pretty long), and if you believe the
numbers, an R21 can handle 300 Nm (221 lbs/ft) - the 6 spd conversion claims
it can handle twice that - 600 Nm (442 lbs/ft) - that's definitely sufficient for
a nicely done 302 stroker.

Of course, if I can duplicate the Renault to Ford bellhousing for an inverted
set up, using a Ford V8 clutch is also a plus.

Ian

[Malcolm]

IF you bought a GTD project car to lower the engine and box then decide if you would lower it so much as to make the sump go below the bottom chassis rails. I would suggest not but some have. But IF you take this as a starter presumption, my suggestion would be to not invert the gearbox but chop the rear chassis off (behind engine) and replace with a Southern GT rear frame specifically designed to lower the engine and box without the need for inversion and also I beleive without the need for a new exhaust system, something often required previously. Not a small job but it is how I would choose to do an engine lowering excercise now having seen various methods employed over the years. Kevin did write an article in the GTD club mag years ago about what he did so if you still want to go down that route, talk to Paul Thompson who has the GTD archive to get a copy.

[Ian K]

Hi Malc,

IIR, the Southern GT rear cradle is designed for an inverted ZF (well, as we all should
know by now, it is a normally oriented ZF, but since most ZFs are now ZF-2s for
Panteras ...).

Other reasons to go with the Southern GT cradle is the improved suspension geometry,
so I have already figured on that route (as well as just getting a Southern GT chassis
if a second hand GTD is not available when I make the plunge). However, my concern
is that the UN1 boxes have the drive shaft joints sitting below the input shaft. In a lowered
engine/cradle set up, this might cause the drive shaft angles to be oriented less than
optimally. Flipping the UN1 (as with the Porsche G50 series and ZFs to a lesser degree)
appears to align the joints and level the shafts somewhat.

So, it boils down to what I wind up with. If I start from scratch, than probably a Southern
GT with ZFQ since that appears to be the "native" set up. If I go the GTD route, the
upgrade to a Southern GT rear cradle is high up on the list. Right up there with working
with whatever transaxle it comes with (if any). The 6 spd UN1 upgrade sounds very
appealing due to the compact design and the lower cost as compared to a ZF/ZFQ or
G50 series box.

Ian

[Malcolm]

The Southern GT chassis cradle mod for a GTD works with both ZF, ZFQ or UN1 depending on what you ask Mick to make you. Starting from scratch (although I hope never to do so again!) I really like the Southern GT but that is my own opinion!