ZF capacity and oil recommendations?
- Thread starter Bigblockquad
- Start date
Jack Houpe
GT40s Supporter
Rich I put 3 quarts of Mobil 1 gear oil in mine. I have the M1 ZF that has the oil fill on the back of the transaxle.
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
I had this reply from ZF uk:
The type of oil that should be used in the 5DS25-2 gearbox is SAE80 to specification MIL-L 2105(A). The Standard fill for a standard passenger car and sports car is 3.5litres.
Kind Regards
Paul Loomes
MinstLM
Product Support Engineer.
Passenger Car Products
Customer Support
ZF Great Britain Ltd
The type of oil that should be used in the 5DS25-2 gearbox is SAE80 to specification MIL-L 2105(A). The Standard fill for a standard passenger car and sports car is 3.5litres.
Kind Regards
Paul Loomes
MinstLM
Product Support Engineer.
Passenger Car Products
Customer Support
ZF Great Britain Ltd
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
I've just had a chat with Paul Loomes about the quantity his manuals specify and it seems that this quantity would be OK for the gear box before it's flipped over (for the GT40) and the oil filler and quantity holes would show correct at 3.5 litres. With it flipped this would no longer be the case and I am waiting for more information about what quantity a 'flipped' 5ds25-2 would use. Anyone running a 5DS25-2 to comment please?
David, I run between 3 and 3.5 pints in my Zf and it has always worked great. I puke a little out of the breather but nothing to be concerned with. I monitor the temperature and it runs nice and cool even on the track.
Jack Houpe
GT40s Supporter
Steve, I use the top vent for ease of filling but the back of the M1 ZF has a fill check spout with a plug in it. I haven't changed it as I only have about 6500 miles on it. I have taken the vent off and smelt it after the open road race I did, all seems to be fine.
Dean do you mean quarts or really pints? I put quarts in mine and with Davids info I am almost 1 quart low.
Dean do you mean quarts or really pints? I put quarts in mine and with Davids info I am almost 1 quart low.
Jack Houpe
GT40s Supporter
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
Thank you Dean and thank you Jack. I hope to be doing this very soon as one of the 5DS25-2 I have has been mated to the SBF302 and is about to be re-installed about 4 inches lower and about 1 inch further forward in the car than it was previously with the Renault. The ZF chap above sent me some drawings in pdf and I'll try and reproduce them here. What good they are I don't know as they depict an unflipped gearbox (sorry - trans). He is attempting to find out the official line on fill levels on flipped transmissions (gearboxes) and says he will get back to me. Apparently ZF have perceived a demand for these 5ds25-2 boxes but will wait until the recession is over befor ethey even think about it again. I feel quite lucky as I have two of them - one going in as we speak and another on the shelf - courtesy of Fran. Thanks.
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
All I got was the usual PDF gobbledegook from the above. Well I never said I was any good with computers. If some one is - send me an email address and I'll post it to you and you can have a go.
David,
Never fear--your post above worked fine. Clicking on the link you posted downloaded the PDF file, which then opened perfectly fine.
See? You're much better at computers than you thought you were! :laugh:
The De Tomaso Mangusta used the ZF -1 in the GT40 orientation, and there is a Mangusta owner's manual which should have the recommended capacity. Lacking any other guidance, I'd view that as definitive advice.
They are nominally available from the Pantera club store, but I called the fellow who runs the store to ask him to look up the information and found they are currently sold out. :sad:
I'm now calling around to various Mangusta owners in the USA, England, and France, trying to find one who has the manual, but due to the holiday everybody is away. I hope to have an answer for you in the next day or two.
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
Thanks Mike. Much appreciated asa I live in fear of anything .pdf because it always ends up as garbage. It still doesn't down load for me from the above link.
5 mins later.........
Suddenly it works..............
bastard
5 mins later.........
Suddenly it works..............
bastard
Just got a call from Steve Liebenow, one of the world's foremost Mangusta gurus.
Turns out the original Mangusta owner's manual is only useable for propping up wobbly tables. :veryangry:
Not a thing in there about recommended capacities, etc.; just sales blah-de-blah, useful information such as 'the car has five forward gears plus reverse', and admonishments to periodically check the oil.
He said his technique was to open the fill plug on the top of the gearbox case, and just visually fill it until the oil came up to the level of the mainshaft. Who knows if that's right or not??
:sad:
Turns out the original Mangusta owner's manual is only useable for propping up wobbly tables. :veryangry:
Not a thing in there about recommended capacities, etc.; just sales blah-de-blah, useful information such as 'the car has five forward gears plus reverse', and admonishments to periodically check the oil.
He said his technique was to open the fill plug on the top of the gearbox case, and just visually fill it until the oil came up to the level of the mainshaft. Who knows if that's right or not??
:sad:
ERA specifies 3 qts. on initial fill using Castrol Hypoy C 80W-90 or 75-90 Synthetic. The 5DS-25/2 ZF is flipped as with the original GT40 installation. To idiot proof how much lube to use, ERA provides a fill hole in the right side at a height that establishes the correct fluid level. I use a funnel fitted with a Tygon (clear) hose poked in the fill hole to add lube slowly until it begins running out onto a rag to catch the excess.
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
Looking at the diagrams and the fill level point on those diagrams, it would seem to be about mid point of the crown wheel. Now invert the same thing and the same amount of oil would only be around about the bottom of the Crown wheel. It should be interesting if the ZF man comes up with some figures.
Due to the wonderful Internet, and thanks to a Pantera buddy in Sweden who found this for me, I hereby present you with a picture of a Dash-2 ZF mounted Mangusta/GT40 style in a BMW M1:
Note the fill/overflow plug on the right hand side of the black cover. It looks like the plug is unpainted iron. The gearbox is filled through a hole at the top, until the fluid dribbles out of this hole at the rear.
Using the cover nuts for reference you should be able to estimate what ZF considered to be a reasonable height of the oil level on a trans without the plug. If you were extremely ambitious, you could drill and tap your back cover and install such a plug yourself.
There is also some other protrusion from the back of the gearbox in the center, right next to the plug--perhaps an oil pump drive or something?
Note the fill/overflow plug on the right hand side of the black cover. It looks like the plug is unpainted iron. The gearbox is filled through a hole at the top, until the fluid dribbles out of this hole at the rear.
Using the cover nuts for reference you should be able to estimate what ZF considered to be a reasonable height of the oil level on a trans without the plug. If you were extremely ambitious, you could drill and tap your back cover and install such a plug yourself.
There is also some other protrusion from the back of the gearbox in the center, right next to the plug--perhaps an oil pump drive or something?
Now that would make me wonder if that is the end cover from a 'Fendt Roller' or some other industrial application that perhaps drove an auxiliary oil pump or whatever.
I look forward to being able to ask 'clone' car owners in the future........''''' Hey mate, is that a Fendt gearbox in your car """" 
