Deciding on a transaxle.

Darrin · 13th June 2012, 10:25 AM

I have been leaning toward the Audi 01E transaxle but want to make sure I am doing the right thing by getting it.

I love the Griffin 960 that is coming out soon but it's about 50-60% more than a strengthened Audi 01E. The Porsche G50/930 is great too but it's a bit more even (German metal must be forged from diamond I guess...at least Porsche metal). Same with all other options that can handle, or be made to handle, 500lbs of torque (ZF, etc.), save the Renault UN1.

Given that, I'm kind of in between on the 01E and the UN1. I've dug around and it seems that both can be upgraded to handle the torque reasonably reliably at almost exactly the same cost (around $7500 or so with a LSD). The Audi is a six speed unit and the Renault a 5 speed, but that doesn't really bother me much.

So, if both boxes were about the same strength wise, and both boxes were about the same cost wise, can anyone make a case why one would be better than the other?

My set up is a LEFT hand (American) drive and the shifter will be in the center BTW.

AdrianBurton · 13th June 2012, 02:59 PM

The Audi would be easier to find than the UN1

flatchat(Chris) · 13th June 2012, 05:10 PM

If you're intending a "sport" power plant (motor) and some "spirited" driving (and who wouldn't in a GT40) -- the the G50 or 930 wins hands down -- the best value for money in the long run and the easiest to adapt to any motor.....

Go on then, prove me wrong!

Darrin · 13th June 2012, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatchat

If you're intending a "sport" power plant (motor) and some "spirited" driving (and who wouldn't in a GT40) -- the the G50 or 930 wins hands down -- the best value for money in the long run and the easiest to adapt to any motor.....

Go on then, prove me wrong!

My engine won't be producing over 500lbs of torque (and a little over 600HP) and several folks that should know feel that both the Audi and the Renault can be built to handle that amount and the cost to do that I have found is 40% or so less going with either the 01E or the UN1.

I'd love to have a 930, but unless there is just some reason why I should spend the extra money I don't see it in the cards.

Jack · 13th June 2012, 09:09 PM

I procured a fresh 930 LSD for a great price (under 4K). They are out there, just have to do some serious searching. Even with the fabrication of a clutch slave bracket & cylinder, adapters, etc. it is a great deal!

Darrin · 13th June 2012, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molleur

I procured a fresh 930 LSD for a great price (under 4K). They are out there, just have to do some serious searching. Even with the fabrication of a clutch slave bracket & cylinder, adapters, etc. it is a great deal!

Wow! That is a good deal...about 1/3 of what I am seeing.

Scott DeWitt · 14th June 2012, 11:51 AM

Isn't a 930 transmission a 4 speed? Don't forget, the porsche boxes need substantial work to get them to work in a mid engine application.

Jack · 14th June 2012, 12:14 PM

My 930 is a 4 speed. Near perfect gear ratio's for a V-8. The 930 turbo gearbox can handle a lot of torque.

Darrin · 14th June 2012, 12:20 PM

I talked to a guy about the 930 and he said that it is long (33" I think I recall) and that it would probably need to be shortened a bit.

Also talked to my builder about this again. They offer support for both the 01E and the UN1 so don't really have any bias and suggested the 01E as the more viable based on the ability to get them and their track record with higher output engines (said he knew of one 700HP engine mated to a stock 01E that was living just fine). Also said that a little, not excessive, shaft angle isn't a bad thing at all wear wise (evens it out?) so I guess there will be an Audi 01E to purchase in the not too distant future.

Randy V · 14th June 2012, 12:39 PM

I'm with Chris and Jack here...

You can believe all day long that the Audi gearbox is substantial enough to support your needs. But at the end of the day, you still have to know that the laws of physics will nt be denied. Take a look at one of these Audi gear boxes when torn down and you'll find that you can put the entire contents of the forward gears in both front pockets of your blue jeans, the ring gear in your hip pocket opposite your soon to be empty wallet, and the pinion gear will fit in your shirt pocket wrapped by your handkerchief..
There are a few who have managed to strengthen the Audi box through various additional parts and cryo treatments, etc. But I still do not see those boxes being long for this world if mistreated or tracked for any extended period of time.
Many of us have the Porsche 4 and 5 speed 930 & G50 boxes, so the fitting within a GT40 body structure has already been sufficiently addressed.
Whatever you do, I wish you the best... It's your car and wallet - so do it your way...

David · 14th June 2012, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big-Foot

There are a few who have managed to strengthen the Audi box through various additional parts and cryo treatments, etc.

I think that's more the 016 rather than the 01E

Darrin · 14th June 2012, 04:06 PM

I appreciate the input Randy and I hear you, but note that I won't be drag racing the thing and the torque won't exactly be instantaneous (centrifugal supercharger on the Coyote/Aluminator, not a Roots type) so it's not as bad as it sounds (again, just under 500lbs of torque here...not all that much).

Also, I do trust Scott as it wouldn't be worth a sale if he knew it wouldn't hold up (and to his credit, he did suggest the one with the larger ring and pinion...IF one could be located).

What I plan to get isn't exactly a stock 01E now. It will have all the internals reworked along with custom manufactured 1st and 2nd gears (higher gear ratio).

I'll also get the larger ring and pinion combo if one can be located.

Tom · 15th June 2012, 09:54 AM

if you look on the factory five / GTM forum, I think that Eric from Gbox is selling Porsche GT3 gearboxes for not a lot more money, and it is built for that kind of power etc. I'd sooner run a stock gearbox built for the purpose than customize/rebuild a box that wasn't designed for the kind of potential abuse you car is capable of producing. 500 ft-lbs might not be a lot for an American street car with a standard manual box, but it is a lot for a transaxle.

Just my 2 cents.

BruceA · 15th June 2012, 05:37 PM

How about a Ricardo 6-speed? I just happen to have a spare one floating around the workshop.

Darrin · 17th June 2012, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RamboLambo

How about a Ricardo 6-speed? I just happen to have a spare one floating around the workshop.

PM'ed

Scott DeWitt · 21st June 2012, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big-Foot

I'm with Chris and Jack here...

You can believe all day long that the Audi gearbox is substantial enough to support your needs. But at the end of the day, you still have to know that the laws of physics will nt be denied. Take a look at one of these Audi gear boxes when torn down and you'll find that you can put the entire contents of the forward gears in both front pockets of your blue jeans, the ring gear in your hip pocket opposite your soon to be empty wallet, and the pinion gear will fit in your shirt pocket wrapped by your handkerchief..

You must wear HUGE jeans.. or have no idea as to the size of the parts your mentioning. Last I checked a 9 inch dia ring gear won't fit into a 3 inch pocket.

Randy V · 21st June 2012, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastdruid

I think that's more the 016 rather than the 01E

You're right... I was thinking of the 016.. Also similar to the Porsche 924s/944 trans.

Darrin · 21st June 2012, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big-Foot

You're right... I was thinking of the 016.. Also similar to the Porsche 924s/944 trans.

So you are now on board with the Audi?

Any other naysayers care to relent? LOL!

I need to talk to my builder about the Ricardo (at more, but not astronomically more, money) but other than that, I think the Audi unit would fine and will decide between these two.

Randy V · 21st June 2012, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darrinps

So you are now on board with the Audi?

Any other naysayers care to relent? LOL!

I need to talk to my builder about the Ricardo (at more, but not astronomically more, money) but other than that, I think the Audi unit would fine and will decide between these two.

I know little of the 01e trans..

I'm happy with the transaxle that I chose so far although I've yet to have driven it, those that have made the same or similar choice to mine have been happy as far as I can tell.

The point is - if you're making a decision to buy a lesser capable transaxle simply due to the initial cost of the unit, you may be surprised later when you find yourself replacing or repairing it because it was not up to the task.. In the end, you find yourself spending more than if you had purchased a stronger unit to begin with. Plus, I just absolutely hate being stranded somewhere - in particular when I have my wife or other loved one with me...

Darrin · 21st June 2012, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big-Foot

In the end, you find yourself spending more than if you had purchased a stronger unit to begin with.

I understand that! Again, the Audi unit isn't stock by any means. It may not be as strong as the G50 or Ricardo but if it is capable of doing the job then it is just as good as a more expensive one.

It's like saying that you really want a titanium plate between you and ground when in fact, an aluminum one (which we almost all use) works just fine. Yes, a titanium one would be great but the cost just isn't justified when something less expensive will do the job.

That's the question I was trying to find the answer to. Will the strengthened Audi unit do the job? It needs to live with 500lbs of torque for normal driving (not at the drag strip day in and day out). Most (including my builder) say it will but some, who haven't used the transaxle in anything from all that I can see, say it won't.