Has anyone destroyed a 01E in their GT40?

[Darrin]

This is new thread from a question I first posted about which transaxle to get.

On that thread (http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-tech-powertrain-transaxles/37451-deciding-transaxle.html) many people mentioned that I would end up regretting getting the Audi 01E and should go with something else like the G50 as the 01E would be "wasted money" and need to be replaced as it simply couldn't withstand 500lbs of torque.

So, I did some research and found that the stock 01E is rated for 450NM. That's about 331 foot pounds. I also know that many folks report stock 01E's surviving at over 550NM (about 405 foot pounds). For example, here is one quote I read about them on an Audi enthusiast forum:

"Next up came the 6 speed 01E (CGR) as fitted to the ABY engined cars. This is rated for 450Nm and is a much stronger box than the 01A. I know of some tuned ABY engines pushing 550Nm thru these boxes without reported problems. The early variants of the CGR had a weak point on 1st gear but that was fixed mid MY94 and the CRB box on the RS2 is identical to the late made CGR."

So, from everything I have read from folks that should know, the 01E in stock form can handle 405 foot pounds of torque. In modified form then, I don't see that 500 foot pounds is much to ask for. In fact, I would think that it would probably be well above 500 foot pounds before trouble began but that's all I need to worry about.

HOWEVER, all that said, I would really like to hear of any problems forum members have had using this transaxle with stronger engines.

In short, who here has ended up destroying their 01E due to it being unable to handle the torque of your engine and what sort of power was your engine making, what broke, what rear tire were you running, what were you doing when it broke (drag racing, etc), and was the 01E stock or modified?

Thanks!

 

[Randy V]

You better ask what tires they run and also if the car was being run at the track at the time.. There are other variables as well..

 

[Darrin]

You better ask what tires they run and also if the car was being run at the track at the time.. There are other variables as well..

Very good point!

Also what they were doing (drag racing, etc.).

 

[Ron Earp]

You know, I went through this process years ago. In the end I had to objectively step back and analyze how I was performing my 016/O1E research. Once I did that I concluded that I was looking for the answers I wanted to read/hear, that is, I was looking for that justification to use an 016 or 01E to lend credence to my thought process.

After I realized what I was doing with the box selection process I bit the bullet and bought a Porsche 930 box, had it prepped, and ran the heck out of it. Lots of racing, street driving, and hard launches - nary a peep from the box. The component I was worried about the most and agonized over turned out to be bulletproof.

 

[Darrin]

You know, I went through this process years ago. In the end I had to objectively step back and analyze how I was performing my 016/O1E research. Once I did that I concluded that I was looking for the answers I wanted to read/hear, that is, I was looking for that justification to use an 016 or 01E to lend credence to my thought process.

After I realized what I was doing with the box selection process I bit the bullet and bought a Porsche 930 box, had it prepped, and ran the heck out of it. Lots of racing, street driving, and hard launches - nary a peep from the box. The component I was worried about the most and agonized over turned out to be bulletproof.

I'm looking for evidence, even anecdotal, that the transaxle fails. I have heard a lot of opinions as to what people think but that is all they are. I want someone who has went down the road and found out the hard way. So far, I have only read actual evidence that indicates that the transaxle will perform just fine (from people who run them).

I guess that I am kind of taking the opposite approach that you did. I am looking for proof that what I have grown to believe (the transaxle is strong enough) is wrong, and the people assuming it is weak are correct rather than supporting evidence that they are strong enough.

If I can find some folks who have had them fail under typical conditions with moderate power, then I'll know which way to go. If not, then maybe we will have found a viable alternative to the 10K and higher units that prevent so many people from getting into the market.

It would be great to me if people that didn't need super upper end transaxles could save several thousand dollars by getting a 01E. Heck, maybe it would even bring down the cost of those super high end boxes too. Of course, if people write in and tell us that the Audi doesn't hold up then it would help show the worth of those expensive boxes too.

Either way, I think asking this question is a good thing.

 

[roaldin]

Nearly 10 years on so far so good with mine.
Reasonably strong 364 running R-spec tyres.
Has done occasional events including standing start speed trials.

Tim.

 

[Doug S.]

IIRC Scott built TS 875 with an Audi, Tornado offers some sort of strengthened input shaft...or something like that.

Check them out, perhaps they sell to individuals...I could be wrong, but IIRC their kit is engineered for an Audi transaxle.

Gearing seems to be a big issue...generally with almost all of them, though, not just the Audi.

Maybe Cliff will jump in here...wasn't he replacing an Audi in his CAV40?

Cheers!

Doug

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Darrin,
Just another thing for you to think about regardin strength.

The 01X is a reported weaker box, yet this is being used by a guy called Andy Hills behind a Audi 4.2 V8 (ABZ: 299 PS & 400Nm) that he dropped into a Lotus Esprit. It is still going strong. Yet the trans is rated at only 330Nm.

Another thing to consider as well maybe, is also the mass you are trying to also move is less than the cars it went into by a good few hundred Kgs. I think the Audi's they were used in weighed about started at 1500kg and then went up. Your GT will weigh in anywhere from just in under 1000Kg to maybe up to 1200Kg depending on how you build etc

 

[Randy V]

Doug, I think that was a Renault R21 gearbox. I have heard of strengthened 1 piece input shafts being made for the R21 as well..

 

[Doug S.]

Doug, I think that was a Renault R21 gearbox. I have heard of strengthened 1 piece input shafts being made for the R21 as well..

Thanks, Randy...it was one of my favorite build threads, just couldn't remember which transaxle he used.

Cheers!

Doug

 

[Darrin]

Nearly 10 years on so far so good with mine.
Reasonably strong 364 running R-spec tyres.
Has done occasional events including standing start speed trials.

Tim.

Thanks Tim.

Do you have a stock or modified 01E?

Darrin

 

[Darrin]

Doug, I think that was a Renault R21 gearbox. I have heard of strengthened 1 piece input shafts being made for the R21 as well..

Yes, they really push the Renault which is probably the main reason I didn't go with them (although I think they are a fine company with a good product and will probably buy a part or three from them).

When I checked into what it would take to get one able to handle the power I was in sticker shock and talking to some folks I was less than impressed with the Renault over all (gearing, reliability, attainability if needed, etc.).

 

[roaldin]

Thanks Tim.

Do you have a stock or modified 01E?

Darrin

Stock.

Tim.

 

[Erik]

I actually find this thread to be kind of interesting, as a person that specializes in transaxles. What I find most interesting is that for all of the opinions that tend to lean against using the gearbox questioned here, no one has said that they have actually had one fail, that I have seen here yet. Did I miss something?

I don't normally recommend this gearbox because of it's internals, but given how many people actually have these gearboxes installed in their cars, perhaps I will have to rethink this.

That said, I guess the reason for my comment here was to try to bring everyone back to the question at hand. Has anyone actually broken one of these yet, and if so how did you do it?

Erik Johnson

 

[David]

I must admit I also find it interesting.

I chose the 01E based on it being cheap but rated for a decent amount of torque, should survive but even if it doesn't they're cheap to replace. Or if I have to upgrade I'm not out by too much cash.

From the lack of failures I might be needlessly worrying that I'll break it in the first place.

 

[Darrin]

I actually find this thread to be kind of interesting, as a person that specializes in transaxles. What I find most interesting is that for all of the opinions that tend to lean against using the gearbox questioned here, no one has said that they have actually had one fail, that I have seen here yet. Did I miss something?

I don't normally recommend this gearbox because of it's internals, but given how many people actually have these gearboxes installed in their cars, perhaps I will have to rethink this.

That said, I guess the reason for my comment here was to try to bring everyone back to the question at hand. Has anyone actually broken one of these yet, and if so how did you do it?

Erik Johnson

BINGO.

The only place I could really find anything negative about the 01E was here from people who did not own them. That's why I wanted to get some input from those who did who had problems, but no one seems to have had any to speak of.

For moderate power, and especially when strengthened a bit, more and more it looks like this transaxle will do the job well at a very reasonable cost.

 

[Scott]

I built the box for 034 motorsports GTI-RS (a rear engine MKIV VW golf with a turbo Audi V6 with an estimated 800hp)

The vehicle is here: 034Motorsport GTI-RS - 034 MOTORSPORT

A close ratio 01E with Porsche LSD had survived several events with the exception for shearing teeth off the ring gear after a very hard launch while drag racing with an estimated 700 ft/lbs. The stock first gear was also showing signs of erosion.

This is the only failure I've seen caused by too much abuse/horsepower.

I've had a couple fail due to lack of lubrication, one had problems when the input shaft was bent upon installation, and one required work after the owner ran the box without a pilot bearing.

I've heard of one other failure behind an Australian supercharged 5.4 that dynoed at 960 ft/lbs. The owner of the car dropped the clutch at ~5000 rpm and the diff was spit out the side of the transmission. I've also got a customer that wants new cases as he split his trans in 2 with an engine that has quadruple digit power.

The 01E can handle an impressive amount of power if driven reasonably.

 

[Scott]

I don't normally recommend this gearbox because of it's internals, but given how many people actually have these gearboxes installed in their cars, perhaps I will have to rethink this.

And what about their internals do you not like? I've managed to measure up physical dimensions with many gearboxes and the 01E has some of the widest gears out of the Audi/Vw/Porsche offerings. Regarding longevity and robustness the 01E is engineered pretty darn good. The only complaint I have is the stock ratios.. Which can be addressed for a bit of money.

 

[Old Roaring Forties]

I've heard of one other failure behind an Australian supercharged 5.4 that dynoed at 960 ft/lbs. The owner of the car dropped the clutch at ~5000 rpm and the diff was spit out the side of the transmission.

And that case had been ground out to within 1mm of the diff flange mounting bolts to clear the old clutch.
We have O1E's running behind several supercharged 5.4s without dramas, I think people are still confusing O1E with 016.

cheers PB