016 final drive gears....

[Cliff Beer]

I removed these two gears from an 016 over the weekend - these are the two gears residing under the aluminum cover at the very rear of the transaxle.

My question is, are these the two "final" gears that produce either the 3.89, 4.11 or 4.56 final drive ratio used by the 016?

These came from a porsche 944 turbo 016.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Keith]

Cliff,
The two gears shown in the photo are what make up "5th" gear. The "final drive ratio" is made up of the ring gear and pinion gear (the same as in a conventional differential).

The ring gear bolts to the "carrier" that is also shown in the photo (and is a "ring shaped" gear) and the pinion gear which is also the output shaft of the transmission. This "ring and pinion" combination is what makes up the "final drive" of the transaxle.
Keith

 

[Kym Haines]

Here is a picture of a crown wheel and pinion.

 

[Cliff Beer]

Ah, got it. Thank you guys, understood on all.

 

[Dave]

Has anyone changed say a 4.1 crown and pinion from an 5N to a 3.8 C&P in an AAZ? for example?


I have both transmissions and want to mix the two to get the best ratio for driving not racing.

 

[Kym Haines]

I changed my AAZ to 2.92 for driving not racing. See:

http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-tech-powertrain-transaxles/26058-audi-016-cw-p-2-92-ratio.html

I am very happy with the result.

 

[Dave P]

I have a porshe 016 3.22 I am going to try to install in my Audi 016.
Seems to me there was a thread about that a couple years ago. It involve making a 4 mm spacer,boring the case for larger pinion bearing and changing or flipping a second gear. If I remember right. Cliff you can just ship me that LSD I will give it a good home.

 

[Cliff Beer]

Hi Dave,

If you don't mind me saying, you're better off starting with an 016 from an audi rather than porsche 944 due to the differences in the bell housing. The audi 016 bolts right on with the Kennedy adapter kit, super slick and easy. However, the gears may be thicker/larger in the 944 box, particularly if it's a 944 turbo, which would be nice to have. Scott D probably knows if that's the case (be very interesting to hear his experience and wisdom on the topic).

I'm listing the LSD for sale in the For Sale section here along with the taller 5th gears and a spare rear cover (for machining for a strengthening kit). I installed the same type LSD in an 016 that came with my CAV along with improving the ratios (taller 5th) and adding a strengthening kit, and it all made a world of difference - makes the 016 a super sweet little transaxle for road driving.

 

[Dave]

Julian O'hara (200MPH) did the conversion 944 to Audi016. It is not easy and in his opinion not worth the effort. Although he flogs that box real hard in competition. There is a full build thread somewhere in here.

I am talking about swapping Audi 016 3.89 into an Audi 016 with a 4.11.

Seems like a logical mod and installing a LSD while doing the swap. The gain would a couple of hundred RPM at 100kph.

 

[Cliff Beer]

Julian O'hara (200MPH) did the conversion 944 to Audi016. It is not easy and in his opinion not worth the effort. Although he flogs that box real hard in competition. There is a full build thread somewhere in here.

I am talking about swapping Audi 016 3.89 into an Audi 016 with a 4.11.

Seems like a logical mod and installing a LSD while doing the swap. The gain would a couple of hundred RPM at 100kph.

Hi Dave

Yes, no doubt swapping the 3.89 ring and pinion is quite a substantial project. The pinion gear is really a whole gear shaft with loads of stuff loaded onto it! Better to start with an 016 already having the 3.89 ring and pinion set.

In contrast, swapping the 5th gear set hanging out the back is a very easy project and can improve the usability meaningfully in my experience...and that's as much as I've dared to tackle.

 

[Dave]

The 5th gear change. I asume you bought a 944 trans and removed the 5th gear set which hangs out the back. You are then planning on pulling the 5th gear set out of the Audi 016 and swapping straight in?

I thought the 944 main shaft was bigger than the Audi 016 shaft?

 

[Cliff Beer]

Hi Dave, I had an AAZ coded 016 out of an audi right next to the 016 from the porsche - both of them literally open for inspection on the bench next to each other, and it measured the same. The porsche 016 is a first year turbo box so perhaps not the latest iteration of the porsche 016. In any case, they look the same to me but I would guess that Scott D knows all the details.

Scott?

I do know for a fact that the LSD is a straight across swap (done that) with no modifications necessary.

Cheers.

 

[Jim Cowden]

944 CW and pinion is larger, you have to machine the diff housing out.
the front 944 pinion bearing is larger you have to bore the case.
Something else changes the length of the selector forks and you have to add 4-5 mm in the shaft.
I did this conversion a few years ago for someone, cant say Id do it again.

From memory it was posted by a Jim Driver or something like that.
His instructions were good.He worked it out but never did it.
It worked.

Jim

 

[Chris Coote]

Hi,
Jim did this conversion for me.I was extremely happy with the result.We fitted the 3.44 C&P from the 944 with Quaife LSD.
Box shifts well,no noises or gear back lash/wine.Approx. 2500RPM at 60MPH.Down 500RPM from previous.
Excellent work Jim.
At that time it still worked out cheaper than the 3.22 C&P route.
Thanks again.

 

[Cliff Beer]

Good to hear it worked well. That seems like a lot of work to fit a different CW&P, but no doubt it's stronger for having it.

I stuck with the stock CW&P (3.89) and just installed the LSD, which required no modifications whatsoever to anything. The LSD went right in with just a couple hours work. Very happy with it. The 3.89 with the taller ratios of the AFC coded 016 seems to be just about perfect for my purposes - very usable 1st gear, and nice relaxed (2,250 rpm) cruising at 70mph on the freeway.

 

[Scott]

In any case, they look the same to me but I would guess that Scott D knows all the details.

Scott?

I distance myself from the 016.