mid engine 944 transaxle

Hi, I wish to introduce myself I'm a newbie. I have been lerking for a while and I am amazed at the ingenuity of the members here, specifically with V8 transaxles. I too am relentlessly pursuing the affordable V8 transaxle.

The 944 turbo trans certainly is appealing, the 944 V8 conversion community appears to be happy with it. I know it doesn't lend itself to mid engine application, bell housing and input shaft not designed for clutch.

Now I'm no machinist, just an inquiring mind and I know there are members that may have thought of this but I have not read anything in my searches.

Is it reasonable to lop off the 944 bell housing, adapt the appropriate V8 bell housing and machine the input shaft for a clutch/pilot bearing or adapt a Audi 016 input shaft or a combination of the above?

There I asked, your comments are appreciated.
 
Search properly there is a thread where 200MPH (Julian) converts a 944 box into an 016. Plenty tough , very do-able.
 
Thank you for the responses. I have read Julians conversion, amazing. I have also notice that he is ditched this conversion for an 01E.

  1. Is the 01E the new affordable V8 transaxle?
  2. In what cars and years can they be found?
  3. What are the other options?
Thanks, this all helps with my research.
K
 
The 01E FWD only was not used in any cars imported to the US so they have to be brought in from Europe. Not sure if any were used in Canada. The V8 transaxle is the Grazianio (sp?) from the Audi R8 or Gallardo that Fran is supplying for his cars. I like the Boxster S/Cayman 6-speed as it has linkage on it already for a cable shifter and should be good for up to at least 500 HP. I make adapters for the Audi and Porsche transaxles to V8 engines.
 
Thank you for the responses. I have read Julians conversion, amazing. I have also notice that he is ditched this conversion for an 01E.

  1. Is the 01E the new affordable V8 transaxle?
  2. In what cars and years can they be found?
  3. What are the other options?
Don't overlook the Porsche 930 gearbox. A 4 speed, reasonable gear ratio's for a V-8. Very strong as is.
 
It appears again that the alternatives are not affordable. My plans are for moderate street use, mature driver. I still favour the 944 turbo gears in the Audi 016. Can be done for reasonable cost ie: Julian 200 MPH.

Not to do you out of any adapter business Erik, sir but, I wish to further pursue machining off the 944 bell housing, indexing the case to receive a V8 bell housing (of choice) and machining the input shaft to receive a clutch/pilot bearing etc. This avoiding the cost of custom adapter/flywheel, utilize the domestic V8 starter/flywheel/clutch/bell housing etc. This approach was performed by J-Car on the 914 trans in the 80's with limited success.

I also remember reading a machinist comments on this forum that the 944 input shaft would need to be heat treated after machining to receive clutch and that could be problematic but worthwhile. The additional costs could be off set by the savings.

Thank you for your qualified thoughts.
K
 
01E's can be had with shipping overhauled for about $3000 (hint I sell them) as far as being unaffordable the 01E is one of the strongest and lowest cost gearbox of just about anything out there. It's gear widths are far wider than the 016 and gear ratios are better suited for a V8. However you mention the term affordable, and that is a very relative term.
 
It appears again that the alternatives are not affordable. My plans are for moderate street use, mature driver. I still favour the 944 turbo gears in the Audi 016. Can be done for reasonable cost ie: Julian 200 MPH.

Not to do you out of any adapter business Erik, sir but, I wish to further pursue machining off the 944 bell housing, indexing the case to receive a V8 bell housing (of choice) and machining the input shaft to receive a clutch/pilot bearing etc. This avoiding the cost of custom adapter/flywheel, utilize the domestic V8 starter/flywheel/clutch/bell housing etc. This approach was performed by J-Car on the 914 trans in the 80's with limited success.

I also remember reading a machinist comments on this forum that the 944 input shaft would need to be heat treated after machining to receive clutch and that could be problematic but worthwhile. The additional costs could be off set by the savings.

Thank you for your qualified thoughts.
K

If you have the skills and equipment to do all of this work yourself, and don't put any value on your time, this might be called "affordable". But if you have to pay someone to do it you will quickly have more in the transmission than buying an 01E or Cayman 6-speed.
 
Thanks for your suggestions.
IMHO the 01E and Caymen 6 speed gearing is less than ideal for a domestic V8 street car. For me the best feature of the 944 T transaxle is it's gearing.
 
Thanks for your suggestions.
IMHO the 01E and Caymen 6 speed gearing is less than ideal for a domestic V8 street car. For me the best feature of the 944 T transaxle is it's gearing.

If you look at the gear ratios, the 01E and the Caymen gearboxes are far better suited for a V8 at high speeds, whereas the 951 box is better suited at the lower speeds. Also the 951 gearbox is limited to about 450-500hp until things start breaking. 01E's have been used into the quadruple digits.
 
Thanks for that Dave, I am currently speculating on the possibility of machining off the entire bell housing and adapting a domestic V8 bell housing to the 944 T transaxle. Outside the box? yes but food for thought.
The input shaft will need to be machined obviously. I hope to consult with a local machinist this week for possibilities.
 
Why people keep asking the same questions after being given advice is beyond me...

Yes, I converted (no, not the first and won't be the last) a 944 S2 trans to work with my existing 016 front housing. Yes, it is still running fine and the car is now making 440 RWHP, standing 1000m in 21.3 sec at 254 km/h and just survived a rallysprint last Sunday (search youtube to see what the trans puts up with). I only use the car for this sort of competition, and the frankentrans has survived years of this.

No, I haven't converted to 01E yet, but may well do if/when trans breaks. There are many ways to do things, but the conversion to get the 944 trans to work with the 016 front casing was not difficult once you find someone who can do the machining and re-splining of the input shaft for you. No, the input shaft did not require case hardeneing after machining down and resplining to suit my 016 clutch plate.

Anyways, go for it if you want to upgrade your 016 trans for which you have already got an adaptor/clutch/shifter/driveshafts etc. But if you haven't chosen a trans yet, then I'd not recommend it. A fair bit of running around custom machining stuff for no good reason when you'd be better off with an 01E or Boxter or whatever trans.

Having said that, the coversion works and works well for me. Again, search my youtube videos and tell me you're going to drive it harder than that! I doubt it.
 

Terry Oxandale

Skinny Man
The Boxster S seems to be a fairly popular V8 swap as the lastest Porsche iteration that requires nothing more than the adapter pieces. Lastly, as Jack noted the 930 is plenty strong, has a very usable 1st gear, and these boxes (like the G50, etc) offer the user the choice of inverting it for CG and shaft angle benefits, and a host of other advantages.
 
Thank you all for your responses, they are very much appreciated. I must apologize for asking advise for issues that have been addressed previously as I have not yet mastered the search engine here.

I have consulted with two very capable local machine shops. They both advised that it would be cost prohibitive and foolish to attempt adapting a bell housing to the 944 trans via welding or any other means. But I am sure that you already knew that.

I must ask once more, and I realize that the 944 bell housing does not have provision for a throw out bearing and fork but, has any one considered adapting a donut type slave cylinder? The bell housing appears to have the physical capacity. Of course the input shaft could be machined to accept a clutch and a custom adapter fabricated to achieve the correct profiles.

I hate to pass up this opportunity as the 944 Turbo trans has ideal gearing for a street driven, low power application.
 
Keith there is nothing wrong with your idea of using the 944 box , grafting a v8 bellhousing on and changing the input shaft. It only goes wrong if you are not doing all the work yourself , financially to use professionals would make this project a non starter but for someone with all the kit and some spare time it makes a lot of sense and could be done for less than a few hundred pounds.

Bob
 
Hi Keith
A while ago I too looked at converting a 924 transaxle.
The things that I ran into were the same things that you are working through.
I found out that the clutch is a pull type not a push type and I would have to use a different clutch ( I think it was a honda civic) and have the center swapped to the porsche one.
I was that keen I even made a mount and fitted a throw out bearing.

The other problem is the bell housing size will restrict you to using a 9 inch clutch and unless you use a twin plate clutch it will struggle to hold the torque of a V8.

I ended up buying a 016 audi transaxle as it was just a better option.

Cheers Craig Young
 

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Thank you all for your responses. Very good information.

What gear ratios do I really want?

After a lot of reading up on this site it appears my best option is an Audi 016 with 944 turbo ring and pinion 3.375:1 for a lot of reasons, affordability, availability (cores and parts), dependability, do-ability etc.

My objectives are:

  1. to minimize costs
  2. reasonable durability, given respectfully street driven 300 ft.lb. torque (not a track car)
  3. comfortable engine RPM for highway cruising.
The question I really need to ask is, what is comfortable engine RPM for highway cruising? I feel all of the affordable longitudinal transaxles are geared too high. But what is too high?

I intend to use a small displacement, short stroke V8 tuned for mid/high RPM driven on the street. I have never before owned a high performance V8 and really do not know what a "comfortable" engine speed should be.

Your thoughts and input are appreciated.:huh:
 
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