016 to 01E

Gents,

I've been on this sojourn for some time but I'm finally getting ready to pull the trigger on making the swap. Scott Dewitt sold me an 01E with Wavetrac some months ago and with life getting in the way I just never got round to putting it in the car. I have CAV #082 with an 016 and while its been a great little tranny its on the limits of my engine HP output so I wanted to go to a more robust tranny with an extra gear.

Enter the very capable O1E from Scott's shop. Here's the question's I have and ANY input is appreciated. What will be involved in making the switch?

Let me advise I have purchased a kit from CAV which I'm told will be all that's needed to do the swap....to a point. The hard to find pieces made for CAV's are part of the kit but its the other "stuff" that's got me pulling whatever hair I have left, out. I've asked many over the years exactly what I'll need but I've never gotten a committed response from anyone including sadly, the CAV factory. I put this down to the changes in ownership as everything else asked of them they've bent over to help with.

The adapter plate I have is from Kennedy Engineering (KEP) which I'm told by some will require some light modifications and machining to accept the O1E. Does anyone know exactly what modification it will need, if any?

I will replace the clutch, pressure plate & T.O.B regardless as these parts should be readily available from any good parts store and since I'm in there, why not. So that's not a concern.

The fly-wheel. Not sure if requires replacement. Anyone? It will be re-surfaced but I'm advised it may require additional modifications (re-index the mounting holes for new clutch?)

The starter motor. If I have to replace the flywheel...will I need a new starter?

Axles or CV's. Some have advised I'll need new CV's and axles. Anyone?

Anything else? Please chime in and let me know.

I guess I could have simplified this entire inquiry with: Has anyone with a CAV (other then my dear friend Joe W. in CA who's been there and done that) made this swap who can give input. Please step forward.

I'm sure we'll "get r dun" but I hate going in partially blind.

Your input is both valued and appreciated.
 
Hi Jimmy, I am in the same boat, 016 in my car , at some point want to purchase 01e and install if not requiring major mods or expense, lets see what kinds of response we get here, all the best, Neville Nesbitt.
 
Neville, Nice to know someone else is thinking of going down the same road. As stated the 016 is a fine little box. Seeing it in the back of a Baileys GT 40 running at Daytona on the high banking at some impressive speeds against some fine machinery was satisfying to those, like me, who can't afford a ZF or RBT. The O1E, which is an even better tranny I'm told, is becoming kinda rare so best be getting one soon. Scott Dewitt is an extremely knowledgeable man regarding these tranny's and will sell you a fine product and he's answered any questions I've had along the way pretty promptly.

A CAV owner out in CA (Joe W.) did the swap himself but knowledge is power they say and the more info I have going in the better. Plus, I want to get every-part I can before giving the car to a qualified mechanic to make the swap.

This post was just to get ANY input but sadly I'm unaware of many CAV owners who've gone this route. The newer CAV cars come with a ZF or the O1E so all parts needed to put the O1E in the car initially are available from CAV but the swap....not so much.

So, we'll just have to see what, if anything, comes from this inquiry. In the past I contacted a number of persons who might have had some knowledge of this swap but in the end not many could definitively tell me exacting what might be needed and a few were only interested in selling their wares to me.

What number CAV do you have?
 
hi Jimmy, the chassis plate says CAV0044-301, and then 1a29monoB66, not sure which is which, bought this car 2 and a half years ago.Do you know what ring and pinion you have in your car? mine has 4.11 open diff, 1st gear is basically useless, I hear the 01e is six speed with better ratios and taller diff. Someday we'll have to compare notes etc, thanks, Neville ..p.s. where are you located?
 
Based on the number posted I believe you're the owner of #44. As for the R&P in mine....no clue. Came with the car when I bought it so info not available and sadly original owner now deceased. Agreed about 1st gear though......get the car moving and get to 2nd right away. The O1E should improve that but only slightly from what I'm told. Cruising RPM's should be a lot better though and top speed, well that I will probably never see.

I'm located in the Gainesville, Florida area. Would love to chat anytime. PM your number and I'll ring you.
 
Here are my impressions on the 016-01E differences. Now I don't have a CAV to compare this to so use it as a guide or template.

The 01E has the 016 bolt pattern in it. Now depending upon what bolt holes CAV used you may need to add a hole, tap one. Dowel locations also migrate from 016 to 01E(and amongst the 01E itself depending on case styles etc) I've done a couple small block projects with the 01E using Kennedy engineering 016 adaptor with great results.

The 016 input shaft is longer so you will need a flywheel that can accommodate the pilot bearing or space it out using a spacer.

the 016 clutch splines are different (unless you have a very late model 016 or the input shaft was replaced with a new updated one).

The 01E output flanges are offset about an inch to the Drivers's side.

So depending upon the "Plunge" your CV joints have you can space out the pass side or use a deep plunge joint. The drivers side axle will likely have to be shortened, again this depends on the axle lengths and joints etc.

The shifter is near the same place, so cables will have to be repositioned and the shifter shaft is different from 016 to 01E so you will need a new connection piece.
 
Jimmy, good to see your swap is moving forward, should be a great improvement. I was thinking of doing the same thing as you but I went the lazy route and just swapped in an 016 with better ratios (AFC) and a LSD from a 944turbo. The drivability of the AFC 016 seemed OK, and the car drove better with the LSD (no torque steer) so it seemed good enough. I admire your determination to look for and invest in an even better audi-based solution.

Personally, I like the little audi transaxles v. the ZF route as they're cheap (relatively) and light and easy shifting.

Post some pics as your project progresses!
 
Thanks Scott as always for any and all input you provide. I really look forward to driving the car with your 01E. I'm sure your efforts will not go to wasted and will make driving the car that much more enjoyable.

Cliff, your conclusions are similar to mine. The 016 remains a very adequate gearbox and considering the price you really can't beat the deal. Its been a solid friend to the SBF and barring any craziness (no drop clutch starts etc) its served me well.

For those of you watching this space let me advise of what parts were obtained from CAV, South Africa. These parts are geared (no pun intended) specifically for this CAV gearbox transplant. I should state CAV were very helpful and could have provided everything I needed but shipping parts available here in the US only added weight and cost to the shipment. CAV even threw in a new cover plate for me. The one I have on the CAV has been signed by some of the worlds greatest drivers and persons affiliated with the GT40 program including Edsel Ford. I plan on keeping the plate should I ever sell the car (God Forbid!) so the replacement was a nice gesture and greatly appreciated.

The CAV Factory Parts list:

01E 6speed Spacer (I'm going to assume this should make up the difference in axle length mentioned by Scott above?)
01E Spigot Bearing and bush
01E Gearbox Mounts
01E Gearbox selector cable extensions
01E Gear Selector mechanism (gearbox)
01E Clutch Slave Cylinder pushrod
01E Hardware (mounting bolts etc)

I'm advised I'll need to replace the flywheel, clutch, pressure plate etc. The flywheel can be balanced and made to work with my starter motor so I'm advised.

The KEP 016 Adpater plate MIGHT (or might not) need some mods but nothing over the top requiring additional expense.

I believe the CV's and axles on the car will work also. (Fingers crossed!)

$ spent so far are $750.00 for the CAV parts with shipping.
Adapter plate mods, flywheel, clutch assembly etc., estimate is about ($1000-1200.00)
Fluid's for box ($50-100.00+)
Qualified Mechanic to perform install............stay tuned??
 
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Cliff, thanks for your interest. Going is slow and its no one's fault but my own. The most recent news is I've got a few car shows to attend in the next few weeks and then here in Florida we, or at least I, don't drive the car as much due to the oppressive heat and humidity. Its a reversal of the rest of the country in that projects are done in the summer months versus winter.

I've been in contact with a shop willing to tackle the job but have not heard back in some time which is ok given the upcoming shows but if he would have responded quicker I probably would have delivered the car by now.

I'll do what I can regarding photos and will update when things move toward installation.
 
Just a quick update for those interested. The car is being delivered to SAVANNAH RACE ENGINEERING on Friday. The shop came highly recommended and based on my review of their web-site and in speaking with the owner, Ted Wenz, I feel very confident and comfortable they will do a great job. I've tried to insure I bring them everything needed to expedite the job as quickly as possible to include: The 01E transaxle, new clutch, the CAV transfer kit specific to the CAV GT 40. There are still a few unknowns....flywheel, CV's, Starter, will they work or not.

More to follow, with pics. Fingers crossed.
 
You don't have to replace the flywheel, You can get away with a spigot bearing extender and a modified clutch plate. There are plans on this forum for the spigot bearing and links to where you get clutch plate modified. I have a few threads going showing pics of the 944, 016 and 01E all together.
 
Thanks Dave, thats good to know. I know the CAV kit came with a spigot bearing (AKA a pilot bearing in the USA??) to replace the one currently used. I'm replacing the clutch to one suited for the 01E is that what you're referring to in stating a modified clutch plate?

BTW, the car was dropped off today at the shop. Met the owner and crew and I feel even more confident now. What a shop! My mate and I arrived as they were loading a stunning Ford 289, carrying 4 48 IDA's and fitted out with all original parts. What a Beauty!! We were told it put out over 500HP and was going in a very rare Super Snake.

They will start working on the car next week.
 
No, I think Brett from UK got a custom clutch plate made where the spline part was moved to suit the 01E gearbox spline position...
 
Jimmy, good luck with the install! I just bought a house nearby in High Springs. Do you frequent any local cruise ins or shows? I have heard that High Springs has something going on, but no details. No GT40 for me yet, but I still have my '67 Mustang that is now hapily sitting in a new car barn. :)
 
HI Mark, Welcome to the area.

Yes I do a few shows in the area and High Springs has a nice little car show each year that I normally attend. Only problem with the show is its a bit of what I call a "homer."

Meaning most of the prizes go to their members and friends which I could care less about as it's a Charity Show and I go because of the charity involved. It takes place by the rail-road tracks down town between a couple of hardware stores. Very down home but a fine show nonetheless.

You and my buddy Geoff should get together as he has a very nice 65 GT 350. So we'll have Fords from 65, 66 & 67.....we're on a roll!
 
For those with interest......an update on how things are going with the gearbox (GB) trans-plant from 016 to 01E. Savannah Race Engineering (SRE) got started on schedule but ran into a few issues. The input shaft of the 01E is longer then the 016 and may be different then other 01E's depending on the type of 01E you're using. This caused there to be a gap problem as the GB mated up to the engine. The clutch will have to be modified to work. I'm told this should not be too much of an issue.

The out put flanges on the 01E GB are different also. SRE are looking into a remedy and SCOTT DEWITT from ADVANCED AUTOMOTION is assisting in determining the proper CV's and axle lengths.

The oddity is my good friend Joe in California (also a CAV owner) performed the change out on his own and made no mention of changing out the CV's or axles. He also provided the p/n for the clutch he used which I thought would suit my GB....it doesn't!

This tells me the GB has subtle (maybe not so subtle!) differences which will require different parts to make things work. The Kit from CAV may provide many of the parts needed while (depending on your car) may not as Joe said he used every piece of the kit while mine is yet to be determined but I'm hearing some of the pieces may not suit. I will update as info comes in.

We're at a standstill right now until further part information can be sorted.

THE GOOD NEWS: SRE is on top of this whole thing. Henry who has been assigned to work on the car has become my best friend....literally. He called immediately to advise me of the status and has given me updates as the job moves forward. To my personal friends who know me they know this car is my PRIDE AND JOY. Never married with no kids means this car means a great deal to me so knowing its in solid hands gives me great peace. Henry is thoughtful, considerate and calming.

The other piece of good news is SCOTT DEWITT. I needed to contact him via email and he has been Johnny on the Spot! He's responded quickly with Henry and has offered his knowledge and expertise in an effort to move this job forward.

I know of at least two forum members who are considering this change and there might be others on the planet interested so I'll continue to provide these updates.

KUDOS to SCOTT, SRE & HENRY.
 
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Another update:

Not all 01E's are the same!

Depending on the 01E gearbox you use or purchase the output flanges and input shaft could be (probably are) different.

In this instance the 01E I got from Scott differs to the 01E purchased by a friend from Scott. My 01E has larger output flanges. My friends 01E has smaller flanges so his CAV CV's and axles worked with his 01E. My CAV CV's and Axle(s) will not work.

SRE has gone to plan B to get the car back together since it appears no one really knows where to find or purchase the proper CV's and Axle assembly's from.

Plan B is to have spacer(s) made and an axle so my current CV assembly's can be used.

They're doing something similar to the clutch so the flywheel and thus starter can be used. I continue to be impressed with the shop but admit to being slightly concerned about cash outlay for this venture. Stay tuned.
 

Pat

Supporter
Sorry this seems to be such a trial by fire Jim but it is really important information you're sharing, especially those of us considering an eventual change of our 016 boxes. Is it possible your box was modified (perhaps for good reason) away from standard O1E spec and that's creating the fitment issues? I did a forum search and it appears Mark Worthington posted a thread in 2005 indicating he was going from an 016 to an O1E but unfortunately the pics he posted are gone. If he's still around, he may be a resource.
It would certainly be helpful to know the way to discern the kit compatible O1E vs the incompatible ones. With the O1E's increase in popularity it's surprising that there isn't a standard formula to mate it to a SBF with a set of kit compatible axles. Hopefully the trial and error efforts aren't costing you an arm and a leg.
Until your posts, I certainly had the sense that the 016 to O1E was a matter of modifying the adapter plate, chassis mounting and linkage but your experience is far more extensive and apparently not for the faint hearted. One has to wonder if there is this much uncertainty going to a G50 or a ZF box.
It would seem to me that the "complete kit" sold by one vendor would be a moneymaker for someone undertaking it. I'd certainly pay a premium to avoid all the hassle.
 
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Yes it's hard to find a Vendor although they are around, That GTforte mob over in the UK sell a complete kit and I bought one from a Guy in States which seems of good quality but had dramas with supply times.
There are 3 different output flanges on 01E's but I'm sure when I checked that my 016 flanges slide straight into the 01E. Get your Guys to try this as it takes 10minutes to test.
 
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