GT40s.com
MK-I  MK-II  MK-III  MK-IV  GULF  MIRAGE  J-CAR  LOLA
GT40s.com
Home Forum Gallery Support GT40s.com  
Register FAQ Advertisers Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   GT40s.com > >

Notices

GT40 Tech - Powertrain/Transaxles Transaxles and driveline - don't dare post engine things here!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 27th December 2017, 03:32 PM   #1
GTGeorge's Avatar
GTGeorge
Silver Supporter
United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lancashire, UK
GT40: MDA MK1
Posts: 33
UN1 Output shafts

I’ve just purchased MDA GT40 with a Renault UN1 gearbox, are the output shafts meant to float?
The hubs that slide over them appear to move horizontally on the output shafts too, this alone seems a little excessive as though the lock pins have been omitted?

Thanks in advance
__________________
GTGeorge
GTGeorge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2017, 04:34 AM   #2
johnny cobra's Avatar
johnny cobra
4 Tenths
United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Essex
GT40: Tornado GT 40.
Posts: 426
Re: UN1 Output shafts

I have a un1 and mine has the lock pins fitted....
__________________
Tornado 40 330 BHP IVA passed ........
johnny cobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2017, 07:54 AM   #3
IanAnderson's Avatar
IanAnderson
Lifetime Premier Supporter
United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Ashford
GT40: Dax 40 Mk1 (Rov
Posts: 4,048
Re: UN1 Output shafts

Mine has roll pins that you tap into place

Also worth checking if your adaptors are sealed on the cv end
If not it is worth aralditing a large washer 2p into them to stop any oil that weeps along the splines from contaminating the cv grease


Ian
__________________
DAX GT40. Morgan 3.9 EFi, Worked by John Eales.
Renault Box, Always makes me smile!

Last edited by IanAnderson; 28th December 2017 at 12:17 PM.
IanAnderson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2017, 10:22 AM   #4
GTGeorge's Avatar
GTGeorge
Silver Supporter
United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lancashire, UK
GT40: MDA MK1
Posts: 33
Re: UN1 Output shafts

Thanks Both for your input, are the roll pins readily available or standard off the shelf items?
Many thanks

Mark
__________________
GTGeorge
GTGeorge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2017, 10:23 AM   #5
Hendrickx Paul's Avatar
Hendrickx Paul
Silver Supporter
France
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Mayenne France
GT40: RED KVA MKIII
Posts: 81
Re: UN1 Output shafts

Hello all,
Float pins yes , but also look if you have the 3 oil seals to prevent leaks
1) the gear box seal ref Renault :7703087188
can be replaced by Peugeot 306 seal:référence 3121.44 sit tighter on the shaft and could help with used worn out drive shafts with signs of wear on the service contact. on diff side 4.5mm and opposite side 8mm
2) seal 83.2x89.2x3 7703065129 siting on the output shaft.

3) seal 26x34.4x3.6 7703065054 siting inside the drive shaft

with this 3 seals correctly set,no need to put sealant on the pin.

Hope this helps . experience from driving a Renault Alpine 310 for 15 years.... Keeping the rain out and the oil in....

Paul
Attached Thumbnails
UN1 Output shafts-dsc06181-jpg   UN1 Output shafts-dsc06249-jpg   UN1 Output shafts-joint-spi-boite-vitesse-jpg   UN1 Output shafts-cot-differntiel-doit-etre-4-5mm-jpg   UN1 Output shafts-cot-oppos-a8mmde-jeu-jpg  

__________________
Only Robinson crusoe got things done by Friday
Hendrickx Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2017, 12:20 PM   #6
IanAnderson's Avatar
IanAnderson
Lifetime Premier Supporter
United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Ashford
GT40: Dax 40 Mk1 (Rov
Posts: 4,048
Re: UN1 Output shaft

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTGeorge View Post
Thanks Both for your input, are the roll pins readily available or standard off the shelf items?
Many thanks

Mark
I got some from a Renault main dealer a while back.
But then took one into a local hardware warehouse and they had the same things for a fraction of the price.

I do not have the size to hand though!

Ian
__________________
DAX GT40. Morgan 3.9 EFi, Worked by John Eales.
Renault Box, Always makes me smile!
IanAnderson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2017, 07:50 PM   #7
Howard Jones's Avatar
Howard Jones
Gold Supporter
United States
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: N Braunfels TX
GT40: GTD
Posts: 4,158
Re: UN1 Output shafts

Before you drive the roll pins into place. Pack the inside of each pin with silicon. As the pins compress in place they will fill the remaining hole and seal the hole and the pin. This will prevent oil from finding it's way out the center of the roll pin and onto your garage floor.

Also install the roll pins so that split is not facing towards the gearbox but outboard towards the CV joint. This will also help prevent oil flow out of the gearbox, down the spline, into the roll pin, and out of the end to the garage floor.
Howard Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th December 2017, 09:04 AM   #8
GTGeorge's Avatar
GTGeorge
Silver Supporter
United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lancashire, UK
GT40: MDA MK1
Posts: 33
Re: UN1 Output shafts

That’s a real help thank you

Mark

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendrickx Paul View Post
Hello all,
Float pins yes , but also look if you have the 3 oil seals to prevent leaks
1) the gear box seal ref Renault :7703087188
can be replaced by Peugeot 306 seal:référence 3121.44 sit tighter on the shaft and could help with used worn out drive shafts with signs of wear on the service contact. on diff side 4.5mm and opposite side 8mm
2) seal 83.2x89.2x3 7703065129 siting on the output shaft.

3) seal 26x34.4x3.6 7703065054 siting inside the drive shaft

with this 3 seals correctly set,no need to put sealant on the pin.

Hope this helps . experience from driving a Renault Alpine 310 for 15 years.... Keeping the rain out and the oil in....

Paul
__________________
GTGeorge
GTGeorge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th December 2017, 09:08 AM   #9
GTGeorge's Avatar
GTGeorge
Silver Supporter
United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lancashire, UK
GT40: MDA MK1
Posts: 33
Re: UN1 Output shafts

That’s a great tip thank you, makes so much sense too :thumbs up:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Jones View Post
Before you drive the roll pins into place. Pack the inside of each pin with silicon. As the pins compress in place they will fill the remaining hole and seal the hole and the pin. This will prevent oil from finding it's way out the center of the roll pin and onto your garage floor.

Also install the roll pins so that split is not facing towards the gearbox but outboard towards the CV joint. This will also help prevent oil flow out of the gearbox, down the spline, into the roll pin, and out of the end to the garage floor.
__________________
GTGeorge
GTGeorge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th December 2017, 09:18 AM   #10
Hendrickx Paul's Avatar
Hendrickx Paul
Silver Supporter
France
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Mayenne France
GT40: RED KVA MKIII
Posts: 81
Re: UN1 Output shafts

Hi,
forgot about the oil level dont overfill the gearbox, the Renault Alpine /turbo 5 owners stay 3-5 mm under the flow-over level on the filling hole on the side of the gear box

if you need more good decent info on UN 013 gearboxes go tu the Uk Alpine owners forum, lots to learn, or if you manage french ,the French F.A.R: Alpine club&forum
But if i can help... welcome
with all these information , no need to put a carton under the car when parked
__________________
Only Robinson crusoe got things done by Friday
Hendrickx Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th December 2017, 02:58 PM   #11
wolodymyr's Avatar
wolodymyr
Bronze Supporter
United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Scotland
GT40: DAX40
Posts: 1,207
Arrow Re: UN1 Output shafts

George, two other things which I didn't see mentioned, both with a propensity to break the roll-pins;
1 As suspension moves between bounce and droop, the distance between the inner and outer cv joints changes, so the shafts accommodate this by sliding freely in the splines and must not bind when the distance is minimum. If they do bind, the roll-pin will break.

2 There may be some backlash in the inner splines or misalignment of holes in the splined hubs, and as a result, a roll-pin which is slightly larger diameter than the hole and has to be driven in hard may crack as it becomes loaded under acceleration torque. (I found this after curing 1, and still breaking roll-pins, maybe the holes weren't aligned well or hubs had been swapped). The cure for this is to choose a roll-pin diameter which gives a loose fit, with de-greased components, the silicone sealant will hold it in place, problem solved.

Dave
__________________
1991 DAX 302 full Performer rpm package installed
wolodymyr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th December 2017, 07:01 PM   #12
Howard Jones's Avatar
Howard Jones
Gold Supporter
United States
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: N Braunfels TX
GT40: GTD
Posts: 4,158
Re: UN1 Output shafts

If I remember correctly the roll pin is metric. If you try and put in a USA version it will be very tight. Too tight really and is hard to get out. Check with the UK guys they know more about these Renault gearboxes in GT40s than most.

Sometimes the holes in the adapters are not exactly symmetrical and will not line up perfectly with the shafts. Swapping them and rechecking roll pin hole alinement can help. Its worth a check if things seam to be tight on the first one.
Howard Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st January 2018, 08:33 AM   #13
Steve Dean
Rookie
United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: UK
GT40: MDA Mk1
Posts: 72
Re: UN1 Output shafts

Hi Mark,

Seems like you're getting some input from the guys. If you want some input from the expert, then ring Chris Cole (01952 416051) the resident guru in the GT40 Enthusiasts Club. He has been rebuilding UN1 transaxles and supplying them for many years.
I note your intro states 'waiting IVA' ...... I too have an MDA based car and under the current IVA rules there are lots of things on the car that would now result in a major failure of the tests.
I presume you're on top of all the requirements ...... however, if you need input don't hesitate to ask.
Steve Dean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st January 2018, 01:14 PM   #14
Hendrickx Paul's Avatar
Hendrickx Paul
Silver Supporter
France
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Mayenne France
GT40: RED KVA MKIII
Posts: 81
Re: UN1 Output shafts

The best for 2018 to all of you.
forgot one picture with the reference of the driveshaft pins and some other photos
Attached Thumbnails
UN1 Output shafts-67984766_p-jpg   UN1 Output shafts-toriqu11-pour-cardan-bv-un-jpg   UN1 Output shafts-toriqu10-un-sortie-bv-jpg   UN1 Output shafts-a310bv11-jpg  
__________________
Only Robinson crusoe got things done by Friday
Hendrickx Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2018, 10:36 AM   #15
GTGeorge's Avatar
GTGeorge
Silver Supporter
United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lancashire, UK
GT40: MDA MK1
Posts: 33
Re: UN1 Output shafts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Dean View Post
Hi Mark,

Seems like you're getting some input from the guys. If you want some input from the expert, then ring Chris Cole (01952 416051) the resident guru in the GT40 Enthusiasts Club. He has been rebuilding UN1 transaxles and supplying them for many years.
I note your intro states 'waiting IVA' ...... I too have an MDA based car and under the current IVA rules there are lots of things on the car that would now result in a major failure of the tests.
I presume you're on top of all the requirements ...... however, if you need input don't hesitate to ask.
Steve
Thanks for the info and contact details. The car is well on it’s way, just a few jobs left, the main headache is making the fuel caps compliant. The caps as you know are not particularly deep and therefore at present do not allow an internal lockable cap to be installed...I’m currently looking at putting a spacer under the filler housing and removing the original lid and then fixing the lockable cap in place..for now!

Regards

Mark
__________________
GTGeorge
GTGeorge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2018, 12:45 PM   #16
Howard Jones's Avatar
Howard Jones
Gold Supporter
United States
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: N Braunfels TX
GT40: GTD
Posts: 4,158
Re: UN1 Output shafts

Paul, could you post the sizes of those split pins please. Am I correct that they are metric?

Thanks
Howard Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2018, 11:46 AM   #17
Hendrickx Paul's Avatar
Hendrickx Paul
Silver Supporter
France
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Mayenne France
GT40: RED KVA MKIII
Posts: 81
Re: UN1 Output shafts

Howard,
2pin asembly innnerpin :3mmx50mm outer pin 5mmx50mm,
when installing: first outer pin (5mm) and then the 3mm pin

greetings,
Paul
Attached Thumbnails
UN1 Output shafts-cardan-boite-un-jpg  
__________________
Only Robinson crusoe got things done by Friday
Hendrickx Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2018, 04:13 PM   #18
GTGeorge's Avatar
GTGeorge
Silver Supporter
United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lancashire, UK
GT40: MDA MK1
Posts: 33
Re: UN1 Output shafts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendrickx Paul View Post
Howard,
2pin asembly innnerpin :3mmx50mm outer pin 5mmx50mm,
when installing: first outer pin (5mm) and then the 3mm pin

greetings,
Paul
Great help thank you, I have just ordered seals from a Lotus specialist £37 all in! He did say that getting the seals in accordingly on the different sides certainly helps with the oil seal!

Many thanks once again
Mark
__________________
GTGeorge
GTGeorge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2018, 07:26 AM   #19
Steve Dean
Rookie
United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: UK
GT40: MDA Mk1
Posts: 72
Re: UN1 Output shafts

Hi Mark,

Re your forthcoming IVA test. A few things to be careful of ...... the side windows as originally supplied with an MDA kit are no longer compliant. Also don't submit the car with the side windows not fitted - that will result in a fail.
Be very careful with regard to all the hoses on the car. Make sure they were designed for the purpose being used and are marked as such. Have supporting paperwork with you. Be careful with the rear number plate lights. If they impinge on any area that will be occupied by the number plate it will get a fail.
Be ultra careful with regard to the radius gauge tests. On the interior it is very easy to overlook something ...... handbrake levers are a classic failure. Also the bevels on some brands of gauges fail on the radius test.
Also make sure the headrests meet the current requirement. Tornado had to re-design theirs as they were deemed too small.
Please keep everyone posted as to how you get on as it helps build a pool of information.
Steve Dean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2018, 12:16 PM   #20
Howard Jones's Avatar
Howard Jones
Gold Supporter
United States
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: N Braunfels TX
GT40: GTD
Posts: 4,158
Re: UN1 Output shafts

Thanks Paul, that will be a lot of help the next time I take mine apart. As I said before the nearest inch sizes are very tight and can be very difficult to remove. IMHO the metric sizes must be used. Future searchers should heed this warning and use Paul's pin sizes.

Thanks again Paul
Howard Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
float, meant, output, shafts, un1


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:45 AM.