Off the deep end / blueprints

aleaskp2 · 07-25-07, 03:22 AM

Hi all. I'm fighting a losing battle with toy envy. I've been in love with the CanAm and endurance racers of th 60's and early 70's. The GT40's, the McLarens, the T70's, P3's and P4's..... You know the disease.
My biggest problem is $$$$$$. I can not afford the real thing nor really one of the beauties from RCR. What I do have is time, fabrication, body work and mechanical skills. And the guidance of a man who built and crewed for CanAm, Indy and endurance racing.
I've narrowed my choices down to the following (in order of preference) T70 Mk III B, McLaren M6B GT, T70 Spyder, McLaren M6 or M8. I've also thought about a coupe version of the M8 (a never was version of the M6B GT (that for all practical purposes never was)). My all time favorites are the GT40 Mk II and Mk IV but their construction methods seem to be a little more than I want to jump into. For one I don't want to have to build a stamping die for the Mk II roof.
At any rate, what I looking for is blueprints or possibly templates so that I can build a tub to start my project.
I realize that this is a huge undertaking but doing it myself will allow me to (among other things) spread the cost out over a longer period of time while I search for original bits and pieces. Can anyone here point me in the right direction?
Comments, criticisims, guffaws etc. are appreciated and encouraged.
Thanks,
Andy

Russ Noble · 07-25-07, 03:58 AM

Well Andy,

If you've been looking at RCR then you're not all that worried about authenticity. Don't get me wrong Fran builds a great product with, I believe, pretty authentic body work which really looks the part. But the underpinnings are a generic tub and suspension that works for several different replicas that he produces. An excellent idea and a marketing strategy that has proved very popular.

Given that, why are you worried about blueprints etc? If you do a search on this forum you will find this info is quite closely guarded. You say you have the skills, so get yourself a body and build your own spaceframechassis/monotub/ whatever, to suit. If you want to do your own body there are guys on here that have built/are building bodies that have been scaled up from the most accurate models they can find. Basic details like wheelbase, height, width, overall length are fairly readily available. It can be done.

There is plenty of support on this forum for endeavours like yours.

Good luck with your venture, but don't expect to find blueprints. IMHO.

Cheers,

Richard O'Clery · 07-25-07, 07:34 AM

Hi Andy

Re blueprints, scaling etc I totally agree with Russ.

However, if you are happy to build a MkIII coupe chassis (a little different to the MkIIIB) I totally recommend you try and pick up one of the Tamiya 1:12 models and scale it up. From my research, it is surprisingly accurate. The instruction manual has side by side shots of components of the model compared to the real cars. You can't go wrong, and most of the Al folding looks straightforward whether you go mono or skinned space frame. As Russ said, you can use also scale up this kit to do the body if you want to go that route.

The kits often come up on ebay, or Paolo (lovegt40) might be able to help.

The kit also has the attached pic for reference.

And you should get any of the John Starkey Lola coupe books.

All the best

Fran Hall RCR · 07-25-07, 07:39 AM

Russ....thanks for your input but you are a little off base....

I have 4 versions of the mono chassis....if you look you will see that the RCR70 chassis looks similar to the original in dash detail , and the RCR40 has the GT40 look in the front footbox/dash area also....they may all have similarities but they are not generic, same goes for the control arm...balljoint positions and radius rod lengths vary from model to model...they just happen to look very similar but again they are not generic....

I have commonised many parts such as uprights , radiators, brakes etc but thats as far as the crossover goes...

Cheers

Doug Clark · 07-25-07, 09:33 AM

At least one other person has done a T70 from scratch. Check out posts by Fred W B on the Locost UK forum.

FRPGUY · 07-25-07, 09:47 AM

Andy, If you are state side, I make the Lola T70 MKIIIB Coupe Body and GT40 MKI & MKII bodies. Having a body to start with might help.

Richard O'Clery · 07-25-07, 10:24 AM

Hi Andy and Doug

Fred W B posts on this forum too - CANAMSA - SA stratch build

Russ Noble · 07-25-07, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gt40fran

Russ....thanks for your input but you are a little off base....

I have 4 versions of the mono chassis....if you look you will see that the RCR70 chassis looks similar to the original in dash detail , and the RCR40 has the GT40 look in the front footbox/dash area also....they may all have similarities but they are not generic, same goes for the control arm...balljoint positions and radius rod lengths vary from model to model...they just happen to look very similar but again they are not generic....

I have commonised many parts such as uprights , radiators, brakes etc but thats as far as the crossover goes...

Cheers

Sorry Fran.

Must have got my wires crossed somewhere.......

You do a fantastic job with the different models you produce. I would love to see one of your cars in the flesh. Got any orders from NZ yet?

Cheers

JimmyMac · 07-25-07, 04:06 PM

I've had this favourite for a while and it's a bit light but not bad for those modelling.
It has quite a few outline drawings of most racers if you are interested.

Google Image Result for http://www.the-blueprints.com/modules/bplist/images/logos/cars/ford.gif

Johan · 07-25-07, 05:35 PM

I have a Lola T70 sized space frame that I do not have any current plans for. I have some unmachined uprights and some suspension arm stuff too. I have the makings of a T70 spyder body. I have a ZF25 transaxle. If you could put all of that together and make a car, You would be a good fabricator indeed ! I agree with what Russ said about blueprints.
Are you really saving money if you bought my stuff for 1/2 what Fran sells his kit for ? No, you are not saving money, just paying at a different rate. It is there if you want it though.

Joe T · 07-25-07, 06:31 PM

I sympathise with your quest, for some time I wanted to re create a T70, I even started building up a spaceframe but lost heart as I could not settle with certain compromises.

I have collected quite a few original bits, even managed to find a body, but the chassis is always the backbone of any build.

Their are people out there with patterns for the tub, but expect to part with a few thousand. This on top of the fact it may be hard to determine whether they are accurate.
No tubs have come to light in the time I have been looking and I know of a few others on here that are looking also. Lola did offer to make them for a short while whilst building the recent Continuation cars £25k.

Drop me a PM if you like I may have some useful contacts for parts etc

Good Luck

aleaskp2 · 07-26-07, 02:51 AM

First of all, THANKS for your replies. The following should give you a better idea of where I want to go with this project.
ACARP - As Close As Reasonally Possible. My guiding philosophy for this project.
Tub - ACARP. It must be a monocoque,although I might consider using stteel or stainless in place of Al or Mg.
Suspension - ACARP. Alterations in geonetry to take advantage of improved tire technology is acceptable, as is the use of currently available shocks and springs. Especially if the originals are NLA.
Brakes - I'd rather err on the side of modern technology, ispecially if the originals are unavailable or can be greately improved on.
Wheels - They've got to look right. If that means making patterns to have new ones cast then so be it. Using Al or AlMag in place of Mg is acceptible.
Transaxle - It's got to be a Hewland LG like the real cars had.
Engine - A Ford. I know the overwhelming majority of Lolas and Mclarens were built with Chevys. Mine won't be.
Body - ACARP. I'm planning on contacting T.W. Mouldings as to price and particulars on their panels. I'd also like to know about the MkIII B panels from FRPGUY. Of course OE parts would be desireable as well.
Electrics/Instruments - Domestic goods are fine although the correct OE instruments would be great.
So much for the short list.
If a part is made of Unobtanium then I'd rather see it go to correctly restore an original car.
Since it's not an Original car I doubt that it would be welcome at any "Official" Lola, McLaren, SVRA et. al. gatherings. They have to draw the line somewhere so that's fine with me. It would be acceptible for things like Track Days, Open Road Racing and (very) limited street use. And for me that's the whole idea.
Andy

aleaskp2 · 07-26-07, 02:52 AM

First of all, THANKS for your replies. The following should give you a better idea of where I want to go with this project.
ACARP - As Close As Reasonally Possible. My guiding philosophy for this project.
Tub - ACARP. It must be a monocoque,although I might consider using stteel or stainless in place of Al or Mg.
Suspension - ACARP. Alterations in geonetry to take advantage of improved tire technology is acceptable, as is the use of currently available shocks and springs. Especially if the originals are NLA.
Brakes - I'd rather err on the side of modern technology, ispecially if the originals are unavailable or can be greately improved on.
Wheels - They've got to look right. If that means making patterns to have new ones cast then so be it. Using Al or AlMag in place of Mg is acceptible.
Transaxle - It's got to be a Hewland LG like the real cars had.
Engine - A Ford. I know the overwhelming majority of Lolas and Mclarens were built with Chevys. Mine won't be.
Body - ACARP. I'm planning on contacting T.W. Mouldings as to price and particulars on their panels. I'd also like to know about the MkIII B panels from FRPGUY. Of course OE parts would be desireable as well.
Electrics/Instruments - Domestic goods are fine although the correct OE instruments would be great.
So much for the short list.
If a part is made of Unobtanium then I'd rather see it go to correctly restore an original car.
Since it's not an Original car I doubt that it would be welcome at any "Official" Lola, McLaren, SVRA et. al. gatherings. They have to draw the line somewhere so that's fine with me. It would be acceptible for things like Track Days, Open Road Racing and (very) limited street use. And for me that's the whole idea.
Andy

aleaskp2 · 07-26-07, 03:13 AM

Oops. Sorry about the double post. I intended to preview it to correct my spelling errors and... Well you see what happened.
Out of curiosity, does anyone here know anything about the Mann Open Sports Ford? Ive seen pics. of it from the side, rear 3/4, and rear views but none of the front. Beautiful car in my book. If all else fails with the T70 or McLaren project I wouldn't mind having a go at something along it's lines for a totally scratchbuilt project. The station buck method that's being used on the CANAMSA project would lend itself quite nicely should I decide to scratchbuild an OSF style body. I'm familier with method and have a virtually endless supply of tooling foam free for the taking.