I have Vented Brake Discs - MSA Registrar .... problem

[Airscratcher]

Hi All,
I wonder if anyone can help me. The Spyder has vented front and rear Discs.
I am looking to get a (UK) MSA historic passort for the Lola T70 Spyder. The chappie from the MSA (registrar) has come to Jersey and viewed the car, he's 100% happy with the car EXCEPT he wants proof that the T70 Spyder MkII left the factory with vented dics.
I called up the Lola factory who confirm that from late 1965, T70 spyders were fitted with the vented discs.
I then called MSA registrar who said even if Lola put that in writing, he will still require PROOF !!
How on earth I am supposed to PROVE this to the MSA registrar. He wants pictures from an Autosports magazine etc to prove this claim !
any help would be greatfully received, Matthew

[Jim Pearson]

Hi Matthew,

Maybe T70 expert and author John Starkey would have some useful material archived away???

Here's a link to one of his postings so that you can PM/email him.

John Surtees Lola T70s 1965

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Jim

[Ron Earp]

What does this a-hole want? Does he want you to fit solid rotors to the car? Or heaven forbid, drums? Seems like in the name of safety you'd want the best parts you could get. In this case vented rotors would be it.

[Airscratcher]

Yes- he want me to take off the modern 6 pot Outlaw calipers front and back and replace them with Solid Girlings + I have to prove to him that
vented discs are / were period to the Lola T70 MkII Spyder !!

[Johan]

From my possibly flawed memory of T70 datelines, the car most probably came with solid rotors from the factory. Vented rotors were introduced with the MK III coupe and the spindles became single nut knock-ons, which were retrofitted to some MK IIs for racing in 1967, but your car is a 1966 and perhaps produced in 1965 and they are very picky. If your car were a 1967 it would be too new for Goodwood Revival though, so as an older car it is worth a LOT more (many times over the cost of the brakes). You could retrofit the original solid discs at great cost ( they are still made new for $8,000), or you could prove that your T70 ran them in 1966 as a modification during a race. If so, the vented rotors and larger girling calipers can also still be had new but again, they are about $8,000 for a set and there is machining involved to fit them to your uprights. A spacer plate must be made for instance. Regardless, they may never approve the current "outlaw" brakes for vintage racing in Europe in the present organizations.
The GOOD news is that there is a new UK based organization that will allow a more forgiving technical inspection of your car, even to the point of allowing outright replicas, and should begin sanctioning races in 2009. The name escapes me but I shall inquire...
I just had to purchase several sets of the vintage brakes that would allow me to run good NEW brakes that would pass tech in the UK, so I feel your pain. Contact Lola if you want the old style brakes.

[Airscratcher]

Hi Johan,
thanks for the info, I have spoken to a company called BG Developments who sell the girlings for £300 to £400 each and £178 for each solid disc, they recently supplied these to Lola for there Red continuation car which is on-route to the USA.
A helpful chap at lola wrote:
Matthew

I have spoken to someone with more knowledge on this subject than I. They have told me that if you run in the pre 1965 class then you will have to run solid discs. The first MK2 Spyders left the factory with solid discs. I am not sure at which point Lola's changed to vented discs. It was possibly towards the end of Mk2 production or it could have started with the Mk3 Spyders (these did have vented discs). If you were to race in the pre 1971 class (along with the T70 Mk3B's) then I think you could run vented discs but I do not know if any other Spyders run in this class as they wouldn't be competitive.

For your information, I think your uprights should suit both types of caliper/disc but it would be worth double checking what you actually have.

I hope this helps

Bruce

[David Pozzi]

T70 Spyder Front uprights that came with vented discs have a slightly different caliper bolt hole location. If you were to bolt the Girling 4 piston calipers to a non vented front upright, the caliper would hit the wheel. I have seen very very few MkII Lolas with original vented discs. I have seen a LOT of conversions to all types of stuff.
David

[Airscratcher]

Hey Guys, Good news the Girlings have arrived and discs/hubs are all lovely and machined (forgot to take piccy today, will do I promise) and being fitted this week. What do I do with the 'as new' Outlaw brakes and vented discs? Where on earth do you sell T70 bits likes these?

[Jac Mac]

The Rotors & Calipers could be used on just about any project, GT 40 or otherwise by someone with enough ability to make caliper brackets if reqd, & buy the appropriate hats for the rotors. The Rotor Hats you have will be somewhat limited in application.

[Johan]

How much do you want for them ? I want to buy something from the UK whilst the exchange rate is still decent !

[Paul Thompson 'Hooligan']

On a similar note, I notice that the 2009 Demon Tweeks catalogue now lists a range of 'original' Girling etc brake kits - Discs/pads etc for historic racing and list the T70 amongst fitments.

[Airscratcher]

Hi Johan and all,
I have no idea what there worth, do you want the calipers as well, I would think the 4 of these must be worth 500 pounds, mine for my delta cost 1950pounds for the front two calipers (tarox 10 pots). make me an offer I suppose !! I will call my man fred who sold us the car and ask what he recons.
I noticed the Girling calipers in the new demon tweeks too, we got a much better deal from BR developments, these guys are brilliant and the whole set up for solid discs x4 and BR Capliers x 4 + Mintex pads + postage + machining cost around 1800 pounds.
Keep well all, can't wait for 2009 now !!
P.s Found (off topic) these cars in Jersey the other day whilst driving around, the owner of the cars it turns out is 87 and lives in a home, but daughter wont get rid of cars until he passes away (bless). she hates the cars (eye sores she called them) in her yard and I of course offered to trail them away when she calls me ! Deal done. Amazingly the Delta Integrale is solid under the moss and to my amazement there was an old Alfa Zagato Junior 1600 sitting outside rusting away. Poor thing, a real classic dying outside.

[Johan]

Can you post pictures of your new brakes before you install them ?

[Airscratcher]

Hi, the rear calipers will arrive monday now, so only pics of the front set and sorry , forgot to take piccy before ! There a little blurred, sorry.
P.S 4 x vented Discs and 4 x Outlaw brakes, all for 500pounds if that sounds good. Let me know