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Original GT40s You know if you belong. If you don't we'll tell you.

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Old 12th June 2012, 01:15 AM   #1 (permalink)
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p1074 & p1059

Sorry if this is a repost

GT40 camera car from “Le Mans” heads to auction | Hemmings Blog: Classic and collectible cars and parts


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Old 12th June 2012, 09:17 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: p1074 & p1059

1059 does have low mileage, but most GT40s don't accumulate much time on the road. More significantly, it has a completely known history and has always had good care. If this one is worth 2.5 million- and I suspect that it will indeed bring that much- I can't imagine what 1074 will bring. Five? Six? More? Who knows....

A few years ago, OCTANE did an article on what they thought were the most valuable vintage or classic cars. I think they decided that the most valuable one, if it ever came to market, would be the Moss/Jenkinson MB 300SLR from the Mille Miglia, car #722. One of the runners-up was 1075. I can't recall what they thought its value would be, and it's very hard to set values in these instances, but I think a Ferrari GTO just sold for over thirty million, and there are 36 of those. There is one double LeMans winner, so it stands to reason that it would be worth quite a lot more.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see what they bring. RM really scored getting both of them, that's a coup.
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Old 12th June 2012, 09:36 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: p1074 & p1059

Bonhams Monterey has just listed 1033
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Old 12th June 2012, 09:49 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: p1074 & p1059

Jimbo,

I think that one of the 1988 Rothmans, Porsche 962Cs also wone Le Mans twice, but it is a very small club.
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Old 12th June 2012, 11:47 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: p1074 & p1059

I think Gooding will also have a MKII for sale in Monterey.
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Old 12th June 2012, 12:26 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: p1074 & p1059

I think the Ferrari GTO went for $22000000 recently and there were only 39 made. I think if you check there were two other cars, porsches? that won Le Mans back to back since P1075.
Unfortunately the GT40 does not have the same Kudous as the Ferrari and so even P1075 would never make the money of a Ferrari GTO.
It would be interesting to see if P1074 has the camera panels used for the filming of Le Mans when it had its roof cut off and a a small windscreen?
Regards Allan
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Old 12th June 2012, 01:15 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: p1074 & p1059

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Originally Posted by allanfeldman View Post
I think the Ferrari GTO went for $22000000 recently and there were only 39 made. I think if you check there were two other cars, porsches? that won Le Mans back to back since P1075.
Unfortunately the GT40 does not have the same Kudous as the Ferrari and so even P1075 would never make the money of a Ferrari GTO.
It would be interesting to see if P1074 has the camera panels used for the filming of Le Mans when it had its roof cut off and a a small windscreen?
Regards Allan
GTO went for 35 MM USD.
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Old 12th June 2012, 01:43 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: p1074 & p1059

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I think Gooding will also have a MKII for sale in Monterey.
Which one?
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Old 12th June 2012, 05:09 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: p1074 & p1059

It's in SCM and SCD on line. (the GTO that sold for $35 million. It is that pale green one that was built for Moss, but I think not driven by him)

I strongly suspect that if Rob Walton ever decided to let go of 1075, which I'm sure he won't any time soon, it would bring more than thirty-five million dollars. GTOs are very valuable and desirable cars, but 1075 is clearly the most desirable and unique GT40 with race history. The only other car that might come close would be the 1967 Mark IV winner, and it only won once (!) GT40s with competition history are a lot more valuable than those without, and considering they were built to win LeMans, you could not find a more valuable one than the car that did it twice. And the rest of 1075s race history is just as brilliant. In one of my GT40 books, it is considered all by itself when its race history is discussed, for good reason. No other GT40 won so many international events in so short a time.

Jim, you are right about Porsche. And there is a recent example of a chassis that won LeMans twice, but I can't recall what it was. Bentley? Audi? Peugeot? I don't know 1075 may have been the first to do it. Certainly, as you say, it is a VERY small club.
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Old 17th June 2012, 11:18 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: p1074 & p1059

Quote:
Originally Posted by allanfeldman View Post
I think the Ferrari GTO went for $22000000 recently and there were only 39 made.
Regards Allan
May be I misread it for £22000000. Not dollars?
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Old 18th June 2012, 07:15 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: p1074 & p1059

The same Bentley Speed Six won Le Mans in 1929 and 1930. The same Porsche 956 (sn 117) won Le Mans in 1984 and 1985. And finally the same TWR-Porsche won Le Mans in 1996 and 1997.
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Old 18th June 2012, 07:17 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: p1074 & p1059

But yes P/1075 appears to me as the most valuable car of the small club of double Le Mans winner.

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Old 18th June 2012, 09:05 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: p1074 & p1059

I'll bet that the Bentley might have had the same engine for b oth races... I wonder. I know from John Horsman's book that 1075 had a new engine built for the 1969 race. I wonder if it had the same ZF gearbox. One of the previous owners of 1075 described it to me as the best-shifting GT40 he'd ever driven, and several of them had passed through his hands.
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Old 18th June 2012, 09:35 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: p1074 & p1059

It will be a great summer for GT40 !! When a Mk II was for sale at public auctions for the last time ? And which one ?

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Which one?
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Old 18th June 2012, 07:24 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: p1074 & p1059

Quote:
Originally Posted by allanfeldman View Post
I think the Ferrari GTO went for $22000000 recently and there were only 39 made. I think if you check there were two other cars, porsches? that won Le Mans back to back since P1075.
Unfortunately the GT40 does not have the same Kudous as the Ferrari and so even P1075 would never make the money of a Ferrari GTO.
It would be interesting to see if P1074 has the camera panels used for the filming of Le Mans when it had its roof cut off and a a small windscreen?
Regards Allan
The craziness of GTO prices is as much about being part of "The Club" as it is about the car. There's a very exclusive GTO owner's club, and they get together periodically for a little mutual appreciation society circle jerk. It's just a bunch of elitist bull $#!^. The price tag keeps out the rifraf which, of course, is exactly what they want.

The original GT40 crowd is a lot more down-to-earth/non-elitist, and thus that is reflected in the pricing for the cars.
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Old 18th June 2012, 08:15 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: p1074 & p1059

Actually, I suspect there are some collectors who own both... can you imagine that? Amazing.
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Old 19th June 2012, 02:22 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: p1074 & p1059

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Originally Posted by Cliffbeer2 View Post
The craziness of GTO prices is as much about being part of "The Club" as it is about the car. There's a very exclusive GTO owner's club, and they get together periodically for a little mutual appreciation society circle jerk. It's just a bunch of elitist bull $#!^. The price tag keeps out the rifraf which, of course, is exactly what they want.

The original GT40 crowd is a lot more down-to-earth/non-elitist, and thus that is reflected in the pricing for the cars.
Please excuse my crude description above. I apologize, the GTO owner's club goes on a wonderful tour every year doing such things as staying at 5 star french chateaus and toasting each other and stuff. "The best of the best" as described by one owner. How wonderful.
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Old 19th June 2012, 06:41 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: p1074 & p1059

I'm not sure it is fair to describe them in a way that makes them all sound the same, honestly. There are 36 or 39 of these cars, and although I think that most of them are owned by very wealthy people who bought them once they were quite expensive, I think that at least a few may be owned by people who have had them a long time and cherish them. (one passed through the hands of a friend of mine many years ago, and he doesn't exactly pine for it, but was a bit surprised to see what it is worth now)

Many of them get driven fairly often, at least if you believe the motoring press, they do. And more than a few get raced, fairly aggressively. I guess if you can afford a car which costs thirty million dollars, you can afford to fix it if you bang it up.

I literally can't imagine having that much money, as much as I try to. But I would guess that most of these guys are self-made, that they loved cars before they made it big and got wealthy, and they are just doing what we are doing, albeit on a grander scale indeed. I think that we should give other car guys the benefit of the doubt, and they are other car guys. Sorry for the polemic.
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Old 29th June 2012, 02:43 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: p1074 & p1059

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Originally Posted by MK -IV J6 View Post
I think Gooding will also have a MKII for sale in Monterey.
Their ad in the latest Motorsport has 104 tho its not on their website
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Old 29th June 2012, 04:29 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: p1074 & p1059

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I literally can't imagine having that much money, as much as I try to.
Jim,

I am quite disappointed in your imagination! I have NO problem imagining myself with large sums.

I would spend lots on fast cars, good drink, loose women and some I would even waste!
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