F1 is boring me to death!!!! - Page 5

David Morton · 09-18-04, 06:29 PM

F1 does definitely not seem to have the draw that it had any more, and I have noticed a marked drop off in the crowds attending. Is it symptomatic that an American owned company such as Jaguar that cannot cut it with the big boys in F1 and (in their opine) bleeding to death by manufacturing luxury cars will eventually get rid of the Jaguar marque totally ?
In F1 Ecclestone and Mosley are so far up their own rectums, especially when the former said this week he was amazed that Jaguar Gp even operated in 2004, that he has totally lost sight of the plot. Sure, they had a good formula for racing in the 80s and 90s but they lost it completely in the last 4 years - as Schumaker rose in total dominance and they are STILL totally blind as to which way to go.But they still keep taking the dosh big time.
If I had to pay (and they charge what the market will bear)to go to a race I would have given up about about the same time as Mikka Hakkinen retired. If the GPWC comes off, will it be any better - I would hope so without Pinky and Perky,
though I think it's just sabre rattling my MonteZ and a small band of brothers.
The technical steering groups, sometimes in contest with Mosely, sometimes in accord, all seem to accept keeping on trying to dumb F1 down. They let so called circuit designers ride rough shod and 'f--k up'(not my words but a former F1 driver) some of the finest and challenging circuits (look at Nurburgring/A1 ring that was/Spa (this year at Spa some radically changed corners). It seems that only Monza is left alone.
What are the main reasons why Jaguar Gp (Ford) is pulling the plug ? Boardroom power struggles and ego's? They cannot break into the inner circle and cut the mustard so Ford America is throwing the toys out of the pram.They dont like racing with Jordan and Minardi and fighting to be last (or close to).
There were may empty seats in Monza this year. Far too expensive - yes , no doubt but the tifosi hitherto have paid anything. How many empty seats in Silverstone this year? Loads and loads after the first two laps - Corporate Hospitality is another bone of contention - because the avid fans have been priced out, and many many don't come any more.
I digress...
Bring back some elements of the formula in the 70s and 80s (remember those massive big back tyres), get rid of Carbon discs (you will never see them on the road) but otherwise deregulate the formula and lets see what cutting edge technology the designers come up with !!!

Dave M [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

ChrisL · 09-19-04, 12:42 PM

David and all,

The "real" reason that Ford are pulling the plug is no big secret. The car-selling business has been sustaining big financial losses lately and finding it too difficult to justify the extravagant costs of F1 racing. Consider that the initial decision to go F1 with Jaguar was Jac Nassa's who was a big believer of the benefits of motorsport, he is no longer driving the ship. The remaining board members have been trying to knock the project on the head ever since. And combined with a World Rally Championship budget that rivals F1’s, something had to give. No other company is competing in both championships, and WRC is the more successful of the two... and showing a better return in way of showroom sales. Having said that, even the WRC team is being threatened if it does not continue to perform.

Incidentally, the other rumored owner is no less than Red Bull... and Cosworth is rumored to have already gone.

Sad.

David Morton · 09-19-04, 01:08 PM

Brilliant rumour...It would be fantastic if Walter M (Red Bull) took up the reigns where Ford leave off. He lives in Zeltweg ( A1 Ring)and the 'vision' he is installing at the A1 Ring is going to make it one of the ultimate circuits in Europe. Why not have a team as well! They could test at the A1 Ring as much as they want. Certainly give Austria something to cheer about.
Dave M

David Tickle · 09-20-04, 02:38 AM

Well, my grandstand tickets for the Shanghai race were 1060 Yuan for the 3 days. That equates to about £70 or US$128. Much cheaper than the UK race. The cheapest grass trackside tickets were 380 yuan, £25 / $46.
Corporate hospitality is spoiling the situation, most of the time huge grandstands are completely empty, only filling when the race starts. But I suppose the circuits have already got their money.

David Morton · 09-20-04, 05:37 AM

Dave (Tick)
do you have an email address there ?
Dave M

Ron Earp · 09-20-04, 09:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
And combined with a World Rally Championship budget that rivals F1’s, something had to give. No other company is competing in both championships, and WRC is the more successful of the two...

[/ QUOTE ]

Ford also has a huge committment to NASCAR - something not evident overseas but with cars and trucks here I am sure it eats up money for racing in a big way. Talk about boring - round and round, but I suppose at least the racing is close and the same fellow doesn't win each week (I'm told).

David Tickle · 09-21-04, 01:50 AM

David Morton

You can mail me on ukdave100@hotmail.com

Dave T

**patbarry** · 09-21-04, 11:11 PM

Have to agree with Dave on this one, the sooner Max and Bernie are gone the better. Either that or I am vastly less intelligent than I thought I was. I wonder, since the Concorde Agreement stipulates 20 cars, does that REQUIRE the teams to come up with 20 cars. What would be the driving force to make McLaren, Ferrari, Renault and the like ante up for another 2+ cars? Is this a way to break the stranglehold Max and Bernie have?

I agree, big fat tires, steel brakes.

Tony Hunt · 09-30-04, 02:14 PM

Until the British Grand Prix is reinstated, I will no longer discuss, watch or read about Formula 1. It is a non-subject.
To axe the most historic GP of them all for financial reasons, particularly when other countries (Germany, France) have two each, is commercialism at its most crass. I have felt that F1 has been going this way for some time, and this is the last straw.
Do we really need all these new hyper-stadiums in emerging nations (who will pay anything for the 'privilege' of being fleeced by Bernie)? What has happened to historic circuits like Zandvoort, Zeltweg, Spa(nearly), Brands, safety issues notwithstanding? How can Monza hang on virtually unchanged from year to year, when they too must surely be under financial pressure to up the ante? Perhaps they know someone in the F1 Organisation?
I have followed F1 since the early 60s, either on television, or, when overseas, through Motor Sport's excellent retrospective coverage, and have watched its steady erosion over the last 5 years with disquiet. It is no longer the ultimate in motor racing since it has been slowed down, made more 'spectacular' and the old teams have been squeezed out. I don't want to know any more.
I hope other members of this forum who share my disgust do the same thing and post their support in this thread.
Right, what's going on in LMES, NASCAR and Historic racing?

JP · 10-01-04, 06:20 AM

They are all cocks anway, it's like football - a complete load of bollocks with "fancy" boys dancing around a ball.

Rugby is a man's game, blood everywhere! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Historic racing is also for real men. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

The rest is all about image, money and moisturiser you use. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

If had it my way I would ban F1 and bloody fagball!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

roaldin · 10-01-04, 06:23 AM

I'm with you. Grudgingly because I've been a long term supporter of F1, but with you.
It's not the same for me anymore and I'm not blaming the teams or the drivers.

Tim.

ChrisL · 10-01-04, 08:48 AM

It is sad that motorsport has come to this. As long as there are commercial interests though, there will be vested interests and I'm not sure I know of a simple way of getting around that fact of life. And I'm not sure that the teams are totally blameless either. In all likelihood, the British GP would have survived had the teams wanted it to.

The most quotable quote of the week...
Jaguar did not fail Formula 1. Formula 1 failed Jaguar.

That is obvious when you consider that Jaguar were called poor because they could "only" afford to spend $US70,000,000 per year. Toyota by comparison is spending five times that! Dealing with those sorts of numbers, it’s no wonder that Bernie's reality has gone out the window. He does not seem to understand that $10,000,000 is not something that the average race promoter can pull out of his back pocket.

In the meantime, people will continue to watch what is the third most popular spectator sport in the world (only the Olympics and World Cup attract more viewers, but they run every 4 yrs) simply because there is no other world-standard design-based circuit racing to compete against it, and because those who have an affinity with the history of the British GP form a relatively small part of the overall demographics.

Don't fret however. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. Bernie’s experiment of forcing people to pay to see in-car footage online, by denying in-car coverage on the TV, backfired when people tuned out in droves. People-power lives!
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

David Morton · 10-06-04, 02:31 PM

It might not be so boring in Japan this coming weekend !
Monsoon tyres should be the order of the day and I've told the team and drivers to wear (fire proof) wet suits. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Dave M

David Morton · 10-10-04, 02:50 PM

My supposition about not being so boring was wide of the mark. The only high light today was that it was Murray Walkers birthday....81 yrs.
In my slumbers I thought I heard that prat James Alan say that "Ferraris are made in Italy but Michael Schumaker was made in heaven" ??? followed by another quip "Hurricane Michael". Where does he get off.
I tried to watch it again during the afternoon replay, after lunch, to see if I had missed something but I fell asleep again. Lunch - A sort of 3 meat and 10 veg with real yorkshires with apple pie and cream 'afters'- a northerners Sunday "dinner". I awoke during Songs of Praise.
The LMES was ok though....

JP · 10-11-04, 08:10 AM

Didn't even bother. Yawn, stretch and mow the lawn.

Bill Bayard · 10-13-04, 07:51 AM

Well, rumor(rumour) has it that Silverstone may get a reprieve after all. If you can trust Bernie at his word, that is!
The money shortfall has supposedly been addressed, in what basically amounts to blackmail.
I'm glad to see that F1 stands a chance of continuing in the UK, but sorry to see that the result lines Bernie's pockets even further! What a ruthless prick! How much money does he need anyway? The teams should all go on strike! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Bill Bayard · 10-20-04, 07:00 AM

Well, it looks like Bernie has pulled the plug on Silverstone after all. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
I hate to say it, because I'm far from a NASCAR fan, but he should take a page from the Bill & Brian France (NASCAR) book. NASCAR makes a load of money, with no end in sight. More races = more fans = more money.
The way Bernie is running F1, it's not headed for better days, more like down the crapper! What a shame!

**patbarry** · 10-20-04, 11:05 PM

Bernie going to pay for this one, I think. He cuts the race that sits in the heart of motorsports technology worldwide. Perhaps many in the F1 community agree with Bernie with a premium placed on money, but I have to think there are people who do have a feeling for history and tradition.

Maybe it's all positioning for 2007.

Keith Hardy · 10-21-04, 06:04 PM

Yup! As a lifelong F1 fan and an ex '60's employee of John Surtees (Honda F1 + Can-Am Lola ) I've just about had enough of the "corporate" shenanigans now prevalent in F1. For me now it's sports cars all the way! long live ALMS,ELMS, Le Mans and all the FIA GT Series. Privateers, little or no factory involvement and damned good racing!!!And, what's more, cars you can actually buy from a showroom.