Pride or what ?

[Craig White]

On TV last night they were talking about foreign aid as perentage of GNP and how in 1992 the United Nations members all agreed to reach a traget of giving 0.7 percent of GNP. Being in Australia, they talked about how poor our efforts have been. Australia's donation percentage has dropped and then remained flat. We are number 15 out of 22. Very disappointing. As Steve indicated the US is last, but at least the donation percentage is increasing each year.

Private donations(non-government) from US have been significant though. As I expect private donations from Aus.

Anyway, check out this article . It's the first one I found that had the entire table of donations for each country. Interesting reading.

[Ron Earp]

Hey, that is Steve posting that article, not me....I just think most Americans don't care much what happens overseas nor do they know...tis a shame. Despite what the government does, gives, supports, etc. the average Joe can't tell you much about politics in his own state, much less what heppens in Africa and other impoverished areas of the world.

[Gary Gibbs]

Sorry Ron [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I just corrected my response!

[Bill Musarra]

Here's my .02$ worth. Indonesia happens to be one of if not the largest Muslim countries in the world, and suffered some of the greatest losses. Came across a little published story the other day. Kuait has pledged 10mil, then upped it to 20mil for aid. Kuait's currently has a budget SURPLUS of some 8 BILLION $. The number might be wrong, but the zeros aren't. Basicly the same story for the other Arab(read that Muslim) countries. The U S is giving aid mainly because the people need it.There are people in Fla. and Ala. that still haven't recovered from the 4 hurricanes we had. You will see more comming from the American people themselves through various charity organizations minus what the scammers will siphon off. There are already stories out there how WE caused the tidal wave, from underground testing etc. One would hope that the efforts being made would cause some lasting good will between the Muslim world and the Christian. But sadly it probably won't.
Bill

[DC]

Personally I would like to believe we give to help the vitims but I am told there is no such thing as true altruism.

How then does this fit against the amount of money given? The UK has apparently given a lot from personal donations, perhaps to assuage our guilt for being the largest imperial power in the area 50 years ago. (57?).

But I am sure the average Sri Lankan/Indonesian is not currently thinking that deeply and will appreciate the assistance given mostly at face value - this has to be ultimately good for global relations.

It's a shame our PM has to offer Indonesia 'our' Ghurku troops (an offer which was rejected as they are as popular as the redcoats in Boston, having put down an uprising!).

What a plonker (or his researchers).

[Steve Toner]

[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately Steve, that is the problem with this "list" is that it does not tell the whole story where I am confident that the US will contribute far more then the rest of the world.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with the list is that it exists at all, and gives people a means by which they can claim moral superiority over others, either at a national or individual level.

OK, I'm going to shut up now, as all I have done with my posts is piss off Gordy (and possibly Gary, and who knows how many others who aren't participating in the discussion). I really wish I could avoid getting sucked into these discussions

For those who wish to contribute to aid the victims, there are many worthy organizations out there, and they're not hard to find. Do your research, choose your favorite organization and give what is appropriate for you. Remember also that there are immediate needs and long-term (rebuilding as well as medical & other) needs.

[roaldin]

You're not alone Steve.

Tim.

[Craig White]

Aus government has now pledged AU$1.06billion in aid over next 5 years for short term restorative projects, mainly to Indonesia. This is in addition to other aid programs already with Indonesia etc. Now that's a good way to restore national pride. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

No moral superiority games going on here guys. Just glad to see government helping our neighbours when they are in need. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] And hopefully coming a little closer to 0.7% GNP aid contribution they agreed to reach.

Also an observation on Garry Gibb's comments about US contributions via military resources, company & individual donations, volunteers etc. A lot of countries are donating in these forms, US is not alone and I expect that all these countries are providing in proportion to their wealth/size/resources. Which is great to see. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Mark Worthington]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with the list is that it exists at all, and gives people a means by which they can claim moral superiority over others, either at a national or individual level.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said, Steve. I'm disgusted by the media-induced feeding frenzy over who has and hasn't given how much to whom. It's dick swinging on an international scale. I was raised to believe that charity, like prayer and other virtuous undertakings in life, should be practiced discretely and privately.

[allanfeldman]

I think that giving to this tragedy is a private matter. If publicity means screwing the consciousness of the governments for more money; so be it!!! If you can spend billions on a war not thought through. Then you can spend billions to elevate the suffering of those in a natural disaster without making such a song and dance about it. My main concern is that the all the aid gets to the people!!

Regards Allan

[Craig White]

In my opinion, publicity & public pressure is the only way to get governments to provide more aid. And for that matter at least part of the reason most corporations and businesses donate is for the good publicity it generates. So is life.

I can't see the big deal of the list. The interesting part is contribution as a percentage of GNP. Our governments agreed to try to reach aid levels of 0.7% of GNP. Most are not even trying and it is most of the largest that are not. A promise is a promise and if it takes publicity of a list to highlight it to the public, then all well and good. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I for one didn't know about agreed aid levels until now. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

On the subject of why the Aus government decided to raise aid levels to billion range? I don't care, just glad they did it. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[FredV]

What a pity i could red about the French on this thread ... I am so disapointed that today such speechs can be mentionned, even in an automotive fanatic forum.

I like American and English people even if we have different way of life and thinking, i'll be eternally grateful of what they did 60 years ago for us during the 2nd world war. I hope the comments i red are only from poor guys with low minds and it is not the majority thinking ... poor world. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[ChrisL]

Rest assured Fred that not everybody here sees the world in terms of Us and Them. If this tragedy has shown us anything, it is that the best solutions are found once we begin to humanize the victims rather than dehumanize them.

[Howard Jones]

You know I have to wonder. It seams like no matter what we do,USA, we either didn't do enough, did it wrong, too late, for the wrong reasons, bla,bla,bla,

Can anyone even amagin what would have happened if the USA had indeed kept out of the rest of the worlds business the last 75 years or so. And what about the next 75? Go ahead keep telling Americans how bad wrong we are. With the almost real time reporting of events nowdays we are hearing you loud and clear. Given what happened after WW1 when the US stayed out of world events for a decade or so, what do you think will happen if we just stay home and let the rest of the world just stew for the next decade or so.

Partial list;

North Korea, continues to build nukes and JAPAN decides that they must also because we have pulled the 7th fleet out of the western pacific and WILL no longer defend them. By the way japan can and would be able to turn them out like toyotas and put them on their orbital rockets overnight. What would be the Chinese reaction? The south koreans? Can you say premption?

Balkins; We bring the 30,000 troups we have there home tomorrow. The killing starts again the day after tommorrow, and the EU does what it did last time.

Africa; We stop all funding of AIDS programs and never send American armed forces there again. Again the EU is closer, you fix it.

Russia; Do you REALLY think that is over? Go ahead, give them 10 or 20 years with NO American influence in europe. Today Russias military spending is TEN TIMES what it was 5 years ago. By the way. What has rate of spending on defence in the EU done over the same period? Ducks in a pond. You're ducks in a pond without us and you know it even if you won't admit it. Or... you can count on the french. Maybe the third times the charm.
And now the middle east; do I really need to tell you what will happen if we pack up and go home? All them saudi family members would be living in the south of france in 6 months along with the other western leaning rulers. Iran would no longer have ANY reason not to crackdown at home and complete their nuke program with N Korean technology, invade or simply anex Saudi and the other gulf oil states then tell the EU pay up or else. Russia might just decide now rather than later would be a better time to deal with the muslims and were on the road to a nuke exchange.

I haven't mentioned the reaction of world financial markets to any ONE of these not to mention several one after the other. Can you say world wide depression.

Ya, the USA hasn't done enough, done it wrong, not soon enough, or for the wrong reason. Ya right

Im sure we will keep doing what we can, we always have, we could use a little pat on the back from time to time from the rest of the world instead of a knife.

The british and the Aussies are of course exceptions to the above along with the other members of the willing.

God bless America.

[Keith Hardy]

Well, we're all still paying the price for "Empire" over here, and I guess nothing much has changed. It's been "our fault" for so many years it's quite nice to have someone share it with us. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]