F1 Madness

So with 15 minutes to the start of the race 7 teams will not be racing!!!

Ferrari's intransigence is ruining a good race just for 10 points even when they won't win the championship this year anyway /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
I think we have just watched the beginning of the end of F1. With all that is going on and the manufacturers looking at setting their own championship up, maybe this weekend will accelerate things. However, I do have to say shame on the FIA for not stepping in.

Brett
 
Very much a case of /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
I thought that the adverts were quite good though!

Seriously, it seems more like the FIA were not prepared to make any concessions to the safety issue and refused to install a chicane, even though the problem was apparent on Friday. Max Mosely's statement in relation to the tyre problem causing Kimi Raikkonen's crash illustrated how the FIA accept no responsibility even though it is their rule change which has caused the problem.Total arrogance and disregard of all of the fans and sponsors who pay so much money to keep F1 alive. Time to abolish F1 and start afresh. If you had a pet this sick you would have it put down.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
I've been an F1 fan since the movie 'Grand Prix' came out in 1967 and have stuck with it through all the rule changes, FISA/FOCA wars, tyre wars, driver strikes, complete 'corporatisation' of this so called 'sport'. The total dominance of Ferrari in recent years has seen my interest wane somewhat but I have to say that today's fiasco has been the last straw. After struggling for decades to get a strong foothold in the US the FIA have completely shot themselves in both feet by blocking the installation of a chicane at Indy. I agree completely - I also think this is the beginning of the end for F1, and I for one won't be that sorry to see it go. Give me the Goodwood Festival and Revival meetings anyday instead of this excuse for a professionally run sport/business/corporate circus !! The whole sorry mess leaves me cold !
 

Ron Earp

Admin
Can someone in 2 paragraphs tell me what happened? I was too busy in the garage working on cars to watch any of it - it was Father's Day so I got to do what I wanted! ;-)
 
Ron. Very short version:

Friday - Ralf has big crash, due to Michelin failure.
Saturday - Michelin issues a statement recomending their teams do not race on the tyres. They couldn't cope with final turn loads.
All teams but one, agree to have a chicane put in to slow the cars down.
FIA woud not let this happen.
Michelin teams form up on grid, do warm up lap, and all peel off into the pits and park thier cars!!! Solidarity in F1, who'd have thought?
Thousands of pi$$ed off fans at track, millions of pi$$ed off viewers.
Schuey, cruised to an easy win, after runing is teammate off into the grass coming out of the pits.!
 
Hi All,

This farce could qualify for an entry in the Guinness Book of Records as COCK UP OF THE CENTURY, not only this one but the last one as well.

With many people, particulalry the older guys who remember those wonderful 1960s, having largely lost interest in F1, I'm flabergasted that Bernie and friends would have allowed this to happen and particular in the US where F1 racing has never been a top priority. When Nigel Mansell admits to watching the start and switching the telly off after a few laps there must be a problem!

Now MotoGP and WSB racing is what racing is all about! Dog fights and constant lead changes every lap.That's why nails were made!

Would be interesting to see what impact the new A1 Grand Prix Series is going to make.

Some years ago my friend, Mike Drury from Verwood in Dorset, who invented the tyre warmers back in 1985, told me that the fast right hander at Indy, because of its 9 degree bank, puts loads on the left tyre walls that no other bend does on any other circuit in the world. I would thought that the tyre manufacturers would have known this.

On one hand a marketing disaster for Michelin but on the other hand they have to be commended for having had the courage to admit to a problem. It could have been easy to have kept quiet and have kept fingers crossed that nothing would happen.

Also don't forget that the best racing drivers and sportsmen in the world and those who know how to do it best are those who sit in arm chairs with beers in their hands whilst others are at the coalface often having to make instant decisions.

Often two sides to a coin.
Andre 40
 
Morning all

The race started at 2am here (Nanjing China), so I had gone to bed. But, I awoke at 2:15am and decided to check the action. Well, there wasn't any!! I had missed the exciting part of the race, the formation lap! I agree with all the above and add this:-
DC's comment that it's a pity mature grown ups couldn't find a solution was telling. The problem was caused by Michelin finding their tyre was not up to the job (Doesn't matter why, they obviously didn't do it on purpose). So, a solution has to be found. I understand other tyres were flown over, but they were unsuitable.
The FIA respond with a letter that can only be described as ridiculous in its stupidity. Their solution was that the Michelin teams would have to drive slowly round the corner while keeping out of the way of the faster cars. Alternatively, change the tyre every 10 laps (with any penalty to be decided by the stewards). Either way, the Michelin cars would be uncompetitive.

Under the circumstances, the only way to have the cars race safely would be to reduce the speed in the turn. This was known well enough in advance to have enabled a chicane to be installed (estimated as a 40 min job) and tested by drivers during the Sunday morning. The FIA said this was completely unacceptable. No way could Michelin have raced with that tyre (think of US litigation).
The FIA has forgotten that it has allowed Formula 1 to change from a pure sport into a television spectacular, largely due to Bernie Ecclestone. Yesterday, the FIA completely failed to understand this, as their laughable letter made only too clear.
The problem was known in plenty of time, but the FIA refused to make any compromise.
Had Michelin serviced all the cars, then I'm sure a solution would have been found and a full race held. Instead, we had all the immature political posturing (read bullshit)that prevented a race (sorry, I meant to say televisual racing spectacular).

Pity the two Ferraris didn't collide and spin into retirement, then it would have been much more interesting.

I'm back in the UK for the British Grand Prix. I hope that the FIA doesn't attempt to penalise Michelin resulting in their immediate withdrawal the week before.

Hey Ho, luchtime over, back to work!

Regards

Dave Tickle
 
ahahahahahahahaha.....
I just cannot immagine what will think all my american friends about that FAKE today formula one was able to offer in America.
from Italy...we know u down there simply love to run with everything and all u there can follow your beloved motorsposrts with REAL fun here in europe is almost completely lost(excluding races in UK,that was and always will be a dream land for motorsport...).
I simply think now also Monster truck races will beat formula one show.
Will never follow it again(and since some years ago i was a real enthusiast fun of it).

what is remained today of that nice sport??

sadly but laughing Paul from Italy.......
 

Ian Anderson

Lifetime Supporter
Sorry but I think the only people to blame are the French! Mitchelin got it wrong and the cars were dangerous when fitted with these tyres. The good thing was that they were man enough to admit they made the error.

Now a few races back and Bridgestone was not the tyre to be on and did we have complaints like this? NO. Ferrari could not get their car to do a one lap qualifier and have race distance tyres and yet they still played! Remember Rubens pulled out with worn out tyres?

So fair game they raced and won - yes a hollow victory but their cars were right on the day and that is what counts!

No a chiccaine should not have been put in - why? To put the other teams on a stronger footing? That is Not Reasonable.

That said I agree this is another nail in the F1 coffin - as far as I see it the coffin is made and the lid about to be fitted. Lets see them back to the old days with slicks, cars that can follow (not 2secs behind)ability to overtake and get rid of the chiccaines that slow everything. Yes racing is dangerous and people get hurt but how many could have been killed with the Micky Mouse set up this year? (Kimi with flat spot tyres? Orlando with canvas? Baby Schuey in the wall, Kimi in the wall?)

Hey I guess I will get flamed for this!

Ian
 
Ian you are right that Michelin runners had to be penalised, i too thought of the disadvantage Bridgestone runners had earlier BUT one car from one team retiring is quite different from 70% of the whole field. The lack of any meaningful event for the fans (at the circuit and around the world) has to be the sensible overriding consideration - especially at this venue. Considering they had 48 hours to sort a solution out its ridiculous!

A chicane could have been installed (there are precedents as was pointed our by the other DC after Senna was killed) and all the Michelin runners put to the back of the grid with new tyres (I thought that was the standard penalty). Or maybe only the Michelin runners would be obliged to take the chicane and Bridgestone runners bypass it.

Just to accept a non-event was crazy - like they spent the whole weekend acting like King Canute /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 

Ron Earp

Admin
I don't follow F1 much because it is quite boring, but I do try to catch races from time to time. Glad I was in the garage for this one - what a farce!!!! Thanks for the update Tim. There are lots better races to watch than F1, including events at your local track - I'll get my spectator fix there from now on.
 
As I see it, the FIA was damned if they did and damned if they didn't. The choice at that point should have been relatively simple. Give the spectators and sponsors what they paid for and be damned regardless. However I suspect that there was an over-injection of self importance within the FIA's decision. Their decision amounted to the FIA seeing themselves as being the centre of the situation, rather than the fringe participant.
 
According to UK TV the michelin tyres were not flown out as the FIA would not allow these to be used. It contravened 5 seperate rules.

Yes Michelin got it wrong, but to expect the 70% of the grid to run on dangerous tyres that were known to blister & burst would be stupidity. Would you want to race if you knew your suspension was almost certain to collapse during the race ? I know I wouldn't.

There were 3 main choices:
1) Run on the dodgy tyres and put in a chicane,
2) Run on dodgy tyres but allow more tyres to be used than the rules allow, or
3) use the new, supposedly safe(r) tyres.

All of these could potentially disadvantage the other 3 teams if michelin tyres were better.
However, the teams could have been allowed to run to allow the full race to go ahead, just penalising the teams somehow.

Not allowing them to score points would not be a sensible option. Why would you as a team/driver want to race a car and take the risks for no gain ?
Also remember that engines have to last two races now, so why add the strain to the engine with no gain ?

Allowing more tyres could work as the extra pit stops would potentially handicap the teams anyway.
Maybe they could have stipulated the teams have to complete a minimum of 4 stops or stop/goes.

They could have also had them start at the back of the grid, but I doubt that would have penalised them enough.

There was some discussion on the forthcoming single brand tyre ruling. I wonder what would have happened if all teams were on the same tyres yesterday...

The bottom line is that the FIA were totally inflexible in their rules to the detriment of the 'sport'.

The people I feel sorry for are the spectators who will have travelled far & wide to get there, only to see a farcical race take place.
 

Ian Anderson

Lifetime Supporter
Perhaps a reading of the FIA press release section would help people understand the full reasons
http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press_Releases/FIA_Sport/f1.html

The stewards of the meeting have the final say Whiting even suggested allowing the teams to run 10 laps and change the tyre on safety grounds without penalty but the teams decided not to play!

Also the tyre manufacturer should have had a tyre that was failsafe - the teams decided not to move / use these. - their loss!

Ian
 
Interesting reading Ian.

Agreed michelins' tyres should have been safe, but the only way to ensure that would have been to have tested them at that track, which was not possible before the event (not sure why though - don't all trams get allotted testing times at tracks ?). Consequently this problem only showed during qualifying.

I do get a sense of the FIA trying to wash their hands of it, but can equally see (as I stated in my post above) that any changes could have effectively penalised the bridgestone runners.
There should have been a way forward for this sort of problem.

All of this makes little difference to the fans who paid money to go see a race that didn't happen though. Chances are they will never go to another F1 again, and who can blame them.
 
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