The armed conflict 1939-45 - Page 2

Russ Noble · 01-27-07, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith1

Oh yeah! I think we just made the final repayment....

Now we can eat...

JImmymac - that was funny......

Yeah, you did!

Keith Aitch - that was funny......

Ian Anderson · 01-27-07, 07:37 AM

Talk politics

The final repayment made main news over here in England

They also mentioned that I believe in 3 years the Government could not pay the bill - strange but all 3 were times when Labour were in power. Must say something about their ability to run things!

Now they cannot even build enough prisons and unless you are a repeat offender you only get a slap on the wrist. Bring back hanging and clear some spaces!

Ian

Scott Calabro · 01-27-07, 07:52 AM

Hey I'm still here...... I'm laughing at all the little cry babies who can dish it out but can't seem to take it !! Lets remember, a member from England and a member from down under made the negative comments about my President and my country ! I for one am sick of America bashing, regardless of wether or not you agree with President Bush's foreign policy. Suck it up ............
S

David Morton · 01-27-07, 08:13 AM

Going down hill a bit Scott. Quite a good debate so far.

JimmyMac · 01-27-07, 09:04 AM

Great Britain also had a loan with the US regarding the Great World War I assistance.
In 1931 during their Depression, it was US President Herbert Hoover who declared a moritorium on ALL war debt effectively cancelling all US loans either way.
Great Britain at that time was actually owed more war debt money from other countries that it's obligation to the US.

There was a codicile in the September, 1945 loan agreement which allowed Great Britain to default on six payments. The government naturally took this initiative, however at higher interest on three occasions.

Dean Lampe · 01-27-07, 09:34 AM

Scott, I have your back on this one. Everyone in the world deserves freedom. The same type of freedom that allows us to spend our Saturday morning sharing our opinions with out the fear of being caught and killed for the words we type. Today, in this world, the United States of America is the police force, the only world power with a clear directive of bringing liberty to those that cannot enjoy it today. Is it about oil? Probably. Get over it. When gas hits $6.00 a gallon in the states, everyone will be b###hing! But we have also brought freedom to a lot of people along the way. Fighting the terrorist will take a long time. War is unpredictable and sometimes it will not go the way we plan. No one lied, No one hid information.

The world will not be able to talk it's way out of this. The idea of 5 party talks and bilateral meetings is a stupid idea trumped up by the librals. We will have to kill them all. All that stand in the way of freedom for those that don't have it today. It is going to get worse and more dangerous as we go forward but in the end the world will be a safer place.

I would like to thank the servicemen and the veterens that continue to give my children a safe chance at freedom. With out the troops from down under and across the pond and from the good ole U.S.A. who freely give of themselves everyday for our freedom it would be a much different place. So go ahead you librals, run your mouth. This is your forum. I will continue to be proud of this country and all it stands for. You go ahead and tear it down.

Pat Buckley · 01-27-07, 11:30 AM

Wow.

Simply amazing.

Keith Hardy · 01-27-07, 11:51 AM

Interesting....well, I must 'fess up to putting "fuel on the fire" so to speak without intending any harm just enagaging in the popular daily sport of "leader bashing" which we all enjoy very much over here in the UK especially when we are lucky enough to have a leader of the calibre of Mr Bliar. From the many Americans I meet over here weekly, they do seem to enjoy the very same sport so I naturally assumed that this was par for the course, but there again, not many are from Texas.

I'd like to put just one thing straight for our US cousins though. You really should not talk about "Brits" in a disparaging way because it upsets the Scots and the Welsh so much to say nothing of the citizens of Northern Ireland. If you really MUST blame anyone for anything it is the ENGLISH you see. We, (for I am one of the few that would dare to admit it) are pretty much responsible for almost everything bad that's happened in the world in the last 2,000 or so years. Rumour has it that the head sergeant at the Crucifixion was wearing an England Soccer shirt; they certainly were wearing the good old English flag on their chests at the time of the Crusades when the 'boys' were over there spreading the Good Word (much like to today really).

So please, don't let the Scots Welsh & Irish take the blame -it's ours and ours alone. London can take it!!!!

Anyway, no offence to any of our global cousins for my toungue-in-cheek pop at GB (Gosh, that also stands for Great Britain, how very odd)

David Morton · 01-27-07, 12:11 PM

Don't tell them your name Keith.....

Keith Hardy · 01-27-07, 12:15 PM

It's Pike....

uh oh......

JimmyMac · 01-27-07, 12:34 PM

Keith,
Well said brother.
However, just to clarify one piece in your soliloquy on the English and the crucifixion.

Pontius Pilate was a Scot.
His birth name was Hiberieum Pontius Pilatus and he was born the son of a Roman officer garrisoned in Hibernia.

'Ever heard of Pontius Pilate's Bodyguard ? The First Royal Regiment Of Foot - Royal Scots.
One of the oldest regiments in the world (b.1633) and this year being demobbed by Bliar.
Topically, this regiment won several battles against US forces in the war of 1812 whilst at the same time sorting out Napoleon in Europe.
You could say that in those days, WE were the peacekeepers.

Russ Noble · 01-27-07, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dlampe

Scott, I have your back on this one. Everyone in the world deserves freedom. The same type of freedom that allows us to spend our Saturday morning sharing our opinions with out the fear of being caught and killed for the words we type. Today, in this world, the United States of America is the police force, the only world power with a clear directive of bringing liberty to those that cannot enjoy it today. Is it about oil? Probably. Get over it. When gas hits $6.00 a gallon in the states, everyone will be b###hing! But we have also brought freedom to a lot of people along the way. Fighting the terrorist will take a long time. War is unpredictable and sometimes it will not go the way we plan. No one lied, No one hid information.

The world will not be able to talk it's way out of this. The idea of 5 party talks and bilateral meetings is a stupid idea trumped up by the librals. We will have to kill them all. All that stand in the way of freedom for those that don't have it today. It is going to get worse and more dangerous as we go forward but in the end the world will be a safer place.

I would like to thank the servicemen and the veterens that continue to give my children a safe chance at freedom. With out the troops from down under and across the pond and from the good ole U.S.A. who freely give of themselves everyday for our freedom it would be a much different place. So go ahead you librals, run your mouth. This is your forum. I will continue to be proud of this country and all it stands for. You go ahead and tear it down.

Wow, Dean!

Can you not see that attitudes such as these are what cause such widespread resentment towards the US in the rest of the world?

What freedom is there in having a foreign power invade your country, destroy your jobs, your standard of living, your infrastructure and your future? At least in Iraq they had all that even if they were ruled by a genocidal and viscious dictator. Admittedly the future for the Kurdish minority was not bright! (80,000 killed and rising, but if you’re worried about them, this pales into insignificance alongside the estimated 2 to 3 million killed by Mugabe. Maybe the Zimbabwe population would have been more appreciative of your efforts!) What do you think the effect of the US action on the average (non-terrorist) citizen living in Iraq would be? Also why do you think the rest of the world observing this is going to approve?

Reverse the situation…. What would you think if a foreign power unilaterally decided George Bush, his policies and the American arms stockpile were a threat to world peace and initiated an Iraqi type operation? What would you do once your military was crushed? You would probably form a covert resistance, you would harrass the occupying forces, you would not give up until they withdrew no matter how long it took. Death before dishonour! Just like occupied Europe in WW2, and many other more recent instances. It's the same in Iraq, history tells us that invading another country for whatever reason is a recipe for disaster.

"Today, in this world, the United States of America is the police force, the only world power with a clear directive of bringing liberty to those that cannot enjoy it today."

Sorry, I thought that was supposed to be the role of the UN with all it's checks and balances, but that became largely impotent because, amongst other things, in the past the US did not pay it’s share of the running costs. I’m not sure what the current situation is now though. Although it must be costing a hell of a lot more to be entangled in Iraq than than it would have to support the UN.

BTW, I am not anti-American, I just wish some of you guys could see past the patriotic hype and get a glimpse of the other side of the coin.

Cheers

Dean Lampe · 01-27-07, 04:28 PM

I love these conversations! Russ, you make some great points. I might be able to compare the Kurds to the Jews of Nazi Germany. Germany wasn't a bad place under Hitler, admittedly the future didn't look to bright for the Jews! As for the UN, give me a break. Saddam broke 16 resolutions and flipped off the UN and the rest of the world. If the UN was not getting past money under the table through the oil for food program, maybe they would have been more supportive. As a matter of fact it might be plausable to think that if France, Germany and Russia would have backed the US and England regarding Irag in the first place, Saddam might have backed down and none of this would have transpired! (remember it was France, Germany and Russia that got caught with their hands in the "cookie jar".) If I ask my kids to stop doing something 16 times and do nothing when they don't, what is next? The UN was for it until it came time to enforce it then they turned spineless. Theres a surprise. Politics should not be a popularity contest. I believe that sometimes the right decision is not the favorite but might be best long term.

Germany was a much worse place during the first 5 years after WWII than it was under the reign of Hitler but he needed to be thrown out and as a result Germany is a huge economic power with the freedoms most enjoy here on the forum.

Africa is another issue. I think we need to go help there as well. As was pointed out earlier, we give more money to Africa by far than any other country. I don't feel as strongly about that because they are less likely to effect us economically and are not likely to fire a nuke at us.

By the way, you used a derivitive of the word "YOU" 15 times in your last post. I take that to mean me. If you want to get personal, I can go there to. It is a lot easier to point fingers than to offer up a new "realistic" solution. I think we can both agree that this is not the first time either of us has been involve in a political "conversation" and emotions run deep. At the end of the day neither of us will have changed the others mind so lets continue to debate as long as we are having fun!

When the discussion becomes more than just something to do on a Saturday, lets drop it and go back to the cars, deal?

Scott Calabro · 01-27-07, 05:07 PM

Thanks for riding shotgun Dean !
Russ the UN's limp wristed liberal thinking drives me crazy, even in the paddock I can't say what I think of the UN ! If you guy's like them move them to NZ, New York and the USA would be better off.
Our military will never be "crushed", and NO ONE will ever invade the U.S., because of MEN of character like President Bush and dare I say it, Donald Rumsfeld.
LOL,
S

Scott Calabro · 01-27-07, 05:12 PM

Going out to dinner now with the trophy, I'll check in tomorrow for all the latest!
S

rick · 01-27-07, 05:13 PM

[Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150
"Amen Chuck !
Lets see ... If it wasn't for us the Brits would be eating wiener schnitzel and goose-stepping, and the Aussies would be would living under Tojo.

[/quote]
don't we all love wiener schnitsel and girls in dirndl dresses??

Dean Lampe · 01-27-07, 06:10 PM

If its fried, I will probably eat it!

It looks pretty good!

Russ Noble · 01-27-07, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dlampe

At the end of the day neither of us will have changed the others mind so lets continue to debate as long as we are having fun!

When the discussion becomes more than just something to do on a Saturday, lets drop it and go back to the cars, deal?

You're right Dean, I've got a car to build, you're way ahead of me with your RCR, and I've got too many good American friends on this forum to want to antagonise them by sounding like a stuck record.
I think we've both made our points. I respect your viewpoint, though I don't necessarily agree with it.

Cheers