The armed conflict 1939-45

[Russ Noble]

Freewheel,

And others, here's your chance. I have no comment other than to say that when Kiwis are travelling overseas they are advised to wear clothing identifying them as Kiwis. ie T shirt in black with a silver fern, or a big kiwi logo or similar. The rationale is that the Yanks won't mistake them for Poms and the rest of the world won't mistake them for Yanks!! Dangerous being a Kiwi overseas!!

Go for it guys.

In response to this thread :- http://www.gt40s.com/forum/consumer-...tml#post179918

Cheers

[Pete.]

The best thing about Kiwi's is the NZ in ANZAC.

[Russ Noble]

Well Pete, that’s an “interesting” comment! Do you agree with Scott that :-

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150
"Amen Chuck !
Lets see ... If it wasn't for us the Brits would be eating wiener schnitzel and goose-stepping, and the Aussies would be would living under Tojo.

GOD BLESS AMERICA"




As an impartial observer I’ll just throw out a few ideas and questions and let everyone go for it!

I think if it wasn’t for Japan attacking Pearl Harbour and Hitler going into Russia the Anzacs along with the Brits would all be eating wiener schnitzel!

It has been observed that the Americans only operate out of self interest and then expect everyone to thank them for it. Scott’s comments would suggest some validity to that observation!

And on the subject of GOD BLESS AMERICA ……..

WOMD never existed in Iraq and the administration knew it and massaged the facts. Al Quida was never substantially based in Iraq, so what was the cold logic behind the invasion?

Saddam Hussein was a vicious tyrant of his people but Mugabe was ten times worse, he would have been a better candidate for an invasion if one had an altruistic motive to improve the lives of the oppressed subjects. Why Hussein and not Mugabe then?

The Russians, we would hope, have learnt (although they probably haven’t, but they can’t do much because their economy is stuffed!) from Afganistan what the Americans failed to learn from Vietnam but may yet from Iraq.

What happened to the “domino theory” after the fall of Vietnam?

If you don’t study history rationally and learn from it, it tends to repeat itself. So let’s hear from the historians.

Cheers

[jnielsen]

Russ,
I hope your coments were quickly written and not thought out. Think of the people on this list who have helped others and never asked for anything, I know when I lived in Australia I fought bush fires to save peoples homes I never even knew and never asked for anything. Proud to say the people wer very appreciatave and to this day considered friends. So please think before you paint everyone into the same portrait.
So you know ther was no WMD in Iraq? Explain that to 80,000 Kurds who are dead from them. What exactly was it that Hussein was to destroy under UN supervision? HMMM Wepons of mass destruction. So they were there, unless the UN just wanted to watch him destroy nothing? He refused to allow them to observe them being destroyed. He didn't comply with the treaty he signed so he could remain in power. Chemical and Bio wepons are deadly in small amounts and not easily detected like nukes. Those falling into terrorists hands would be deadly. Sorry if you cannot realize that.
Why study history if you are unwilling to look at the facts?

[Ian Anderson]

Russ

The reason for Iraq and not Zimbabwe is easy
OIL
Zimbabwe has none so USA was not interested!

Oh and Zimbabwe has never been in the Nuclear race so that is the other reason for attacking.

No Oil & No Nukes Big BAD Bob Mugabe does what he wants. (Spell Mugabe backwards and put on a South Western UK accent and you can cound jus like a farmer E BA GUM

Ian
Ex Zimbabwe - relatives had farm confiscated! Zero recompense!

[Mark Worthington]

Originally Posted by Russ Noble

Well Pete, that’s an “interesting” comment! Do you agree with Scott that :-

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150
"Amen Chuck !
Lets see ... If it wasn't for us the Brits would be eating wiener schnitzel and goose-stepping, and the Aussies would be would living under Tojo.

GOD BLESS AMERICA"

Russ, first of all, you need to work on your internet skills. See that quote button at the bottom of the screen? Use it. Or, alternatively, use the quote tags on either side of your text.

As an impartial observer I’ll just throw out a few ideas and questions and let everyone go for it!

My emphasis added. Your comments that follow lead me to believe that you are only impartial when measured against yourself.

I think if it wasn’t for Japan attacking Pearl Harbour and Hitler going into Russia the Anzacs along with the Brits would all be eating wiener schnitzel!

I tend to agree, but I'd re-phrase it to state that there wouldn't be any Jews living in either of these countries if those attacks hadn't happened. References to cute, fun stuff like Weeiner Schnitzel tends to understate what the Nazis were really about. Try death camps, mass executions, millions dead, world tyranny, etc. Given your status as a historian I'm sure I don't need to belabor this point.

It has been observed that the Americans only operate out of self interest and then expect everyone to thank them for it.

What country doesn't operate out of self interest? But let's consider a couple examples of America's "self interest" in action, one from the 1939-45 conflict which is the title, and supposedly the subject, of this thread, and another from modern times.

1939-45: Ever heard of lend/lease? Without lend/lease or any other US involvement in WWII it is a near certainty that England would eventually have, at a minimum, negotiated a peace with Nazi Germany. England simply didn't have the resources to withstand a drawn-out seige.

Today: President Bush has commited the US to spend $15 billion to combat AIDS in Africa, and increased USAID to Africa from $1.2 billion per year in 2001 to $4 billion per year now, projected to grow to $9 billion per year by 2010. What has the rest of the world done about Africa, other than colonize and exploit it?

Scott’s comments would suggest some validity to that observation!

And on the subject of GOD BLESS AMERICA ……..

WOMD never existed in Iraq and the administration knew it and massaged the facts. Al Quida was never substantially based in Iraq, so what was the cold logic behind the invasion?

Saddam Hussein was a vicious tyrant of his people but Mugabe was ten times worse, he would have been a better candidate for an invasion if one had an altruistic motive to improve the lives of the oppressed subjects. Why Hussein and not Mugabe then?

The Russians, we would hope, have learnt (although they probably haven’t, but they can’t do much because their economy is stuffed!) from Afganistan what the Americans failed to learn from Vietnam but may yet from Iraq.

What happened to the “domino theory” after the fall of Vietnam?

Scott's comments seems to have pissed you off. I can understand that.

But now you're confusing me. I thought we were going to discuss the armed conflict from 1939-45. Are we supposed to be talking about Iraq? Al Qeda? Zimbabwe? Russia? Afghanistan? Vietnam?

[chuck smith]

I see no reason for any of this. My comments were directed at a thread that seemed to implicate a world leader as cause for that persons poor judgement and bad luck. One has nothing to do with the other and certainly does not call for world history lessons,recent or distant.

[Gregg]

Chuck, Anything goes in the "Paddock". It is still civil and I don't see why it won't remain so, so I don't see why the exchange of ideas and positions should be curtailed. What I have found to be the unfortunate thing about discussing politics is the fact that some peoples opinions, perceptions and reactions to others permanently change towards the person they disagree with.

[chuck smith]

I am not suggesting it be curtailed. I just wanted to clarify my position. Have at it.

[OhioMark]

Actually, by the time Pearl Harbor was attacked by the Japanese ( w/o Declaration of War), and against Yamamoto's wishes, the British had
already defeated the Nazi's over the skies of England ( Battle of Britain).
We, (USA), were helping the British and others with materials but not
soldiers. Hitler had turned his attention to Russia & England was spared
the potential invasion that Hitler had initially invisioned.
Finally, we need to thank everyone who participated in the Defeat of
the Axis Powers, Australia to the United States etc...Thanks!

Mark

[Russ Noble]

Originally Posted by Mark Worthington

1939-45: Ever heard of lend/lease? Without lend/lease or any other US involvement in WWII it is a near certainty that England would eventually have, at a minimum, negotiated a peace with Nazi Germany. England simply didn't have the resources to withstand a drawn-out seige.

Certainly heard of lend lease! And I agree with you.

It hit the news again just recently when Britain on 29 Dec 2006 made it's final payment back to the US for this assistance from over 60 years ago.

Cheers

[JimmyMac]

Is it true then folks : if you want plenty of good horse shite then one should look in the Paddock for it ?

From the son of an old and frail Normandy veteran and ex Gordon Highlander

[Lynn]

Like in a family, I am just glad that we can slap the snot out of each other all we want, BUT don't let anybody outside the fold mess with any of us or there will be bloody hell to pay!

I have just as much respect for Brit, Aussie, Kiwi or any other ally blood that has been spilled in the many conflicts all over the world and over quite a stretch of time!

So, when you get done, don't forget the round of drinks and three cheers for all.

Lynn

[Pete.]

[quote=Russ Noble]Well Pete, that’s an “interesting” comment! Do you agree with Scott that :-

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150
"Amen Chuck !
Lets see ... If it wasn't for us the Brits would be eating wiener schnitzel and goose-stepping, and the Aussies would be would living under Tojo.

No.

GOD BLESS AMERICA"

Yes.

[Mike Dozier]

I watched the Battle of Britian again this week on my DVD... a really enjoyable movie (unless you were a fan of the Luftwaffe).

It truly is incredible how history turned on the bravery of those few young lads, and the skill of their leaders. I often wonder what the world would be like
if Britain did fall in 1940. I think it very plausible that could led to Germany winning WW II since I don't think the US would have been able to successfully
carry the fight over the Atlantic in those years, there would have been
no flattening of Germany via strategic bombing, and Hitler could have
marshalled all his resources East instead of the doomed two-front war.

Short story long....there may not have been any GT40s since
Britian's history would have radically changed !
So thanks to all the Vets who helped keep us free!

MikeD

[Russ Noble]

Originally Posted by MikeDD

Short story long....there may not have been any GT40s since
Britian's history would have radically changed !
So thanks to all the Vets who helped keep us free!

MikeD

True, and that's why Mark can cut the snorkels off the rear deck of his Mk1 and I spend a fortune to put them on mine! Freedom of choice at all levels and different perceptions of the same thing. Depends where you're coming from!

BTW Where did Scott and Freewheel go? This was meant to be a seperate thread for them!!!

Cheers

[Jac Mac]

Originally Posted by Russ Noble

BTW Where did Scott and Freewheel go? This was meant to be a seperate thread for them!!!

Cheers

Scotts probably still recovering from the temporary deafness he got from standing too close to Lynn's 'pulsing' jet engine & Freewheel could be looking for another gear !

Jac Mac

[Russ Noble]

Originally Posted by jac mac

Scotts probably still recovering from the temporary deafness he got from standing too close to Lynn's 'pulsing' jet engine & Freewheel could be looking for another gear !

Jac Mac

What are you doing on here? Is the TVR ready to go a week early!!! If not get back in the workshop!!!

If it is, you'd be better off spending your time spycam-proofing the place!

Cheers and good luck, see you next week.