Mills

[Chris Kouba]

All,

I've been toying with the idea of getting a small mill ("hobby" mill as I've seen them called) and was wondering if anyone had any experiences with them, good or bad.

I've been paying attention to stuff on craigslist but nothing seems to fit what I had in mind locally. I know there is stuff out there besides Harbor Freight. Any recommendations?

 

[Mark Worthington]

Hi Chris,

It'll be interesting to see what kind of responses you get to this thread. I also consider getting some sort of a mill, but any such purchase would be way down the road for me. A lot of people will tell you to avoid the small benchtop mills due to poor quality and limited potential. That said, it might be just right for your needs.

I suggest you take a look at the following web site:

Practical Machinist - manufacturing and machinist forum - home page

There are some great forums and a lot of the guys who post there are VERY experienced and highly skilled machinists. They have a number of threads asking about entry level equipment and their response is somewhat predictable, given their use of machine tools to make a living. Still good reading in any case.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[Duncan Potter]

Some years ago I bought a "Mill and Drill" benchtop mill, I believe from Enco. I found it was pretty useless for all but the most basic of milling operations. Slop in the ways and undersize bearing surfaces meant you had to take tiny bites very carefully to maintain any sort of reasonable precision, and I use the word precision very loosely.

It made for a decent drill press.

I know they're big, but if you have room a used full size Bridgeport type machine is a whole different universe. Unfortunately, a whole different price tag too.


Grizzly tools make some reasonably priced stuff.

Grizzly Industrial -- Home

I think Enco has a site , maybe encotools.com?

 

[Malcolm]

I have a small Harrisons mill. It is a stand alone unit and I have found it very useful for making lots of little things that aren't round (ie done on a lathe). It was a 2nd hand machine out of a school workshop. It has a 30 inch bed and has auto feed. It has what we call in the UK a 3 phase power supply ie 415 volts. I run it off a power converter ie a single phase supply and it seems to work just fine. By going for the 3 phase powered machine I got a cheaper machine with better capability. I paid £700 for it with cutters and two cutter holders. I bought, for £50, a 12 inch rotating table (second hand again) which has proven usefull occaisionally that bolts on the main bed so I can mill curves!

It is useful that the mill head rotates as well and I can get angle cuts as well as pure vertical or horizontal.

It also has a collant tank but requires an external pump delivery system to be fitted for that to work best.

All in all the machine weighs about 0.75 tones, takes up less space than my single phase lathe and stand only about5 ft 6 inches tall.

I am pleased with it, simple to use for simple jobs and allows me to save some development costs others have no choice but to incur.

Not cnc controlled.

 

[Rick S.]

I was taking my son to his baseball pitching lessons two weeks ago and there was a truck outside with various mills being loaded. They all had auction tags on them and one was a Bridgeport Mill. I know several people that have Bridgeport Mills in their "shops", so if you have room, and operating experience, these things do come up for sale from time to time, though I don't know what they are worth.

 

[Chris P.]

Yes, Bridgeports are beautiful machines. I have a Grizzly belt drive mill/drill and it gets the job done, but it DOES have some drawbacks. The Bridgeport is what you call a "knee" mill because the table moves up and down. Mill/drills are not knee mills - the head moves up and down instead. The Enco / Grizzly / similar mill/drills are made in such a way that when you loosen the head to move it up or down, it also can pivot side to side (which WILL happen), so you have to plan ahead for each chucking operation so you have room to change tools. Otherwise you'll have to move the head up and lose your zero. Also, the lead screws wear pretty fast. Also, don't count on the angle of the head to the table being as close to 90deg as a Bridgeport. (you'll notice this when you face a surface)

If you just need a mill to make parts now and then and don't mind taking a little extra care to get .001" accuracy (which is VERY possible with these machines), then I think it is a good bargain. If you don't mind stretching a little more over $1000 for a used Bridgeport, I would say do that instead - they run smoother, quieter, more accurately, and more consistently. I have used both, and there IS a difference. Put it this way, I am going to be building my own car and I plan on doing it with my Grizzly mill/drill. I would rather be doing it on a Bridgeport, but that ain't gonna happen...

 

[Rob]

Here is what I have Chris. https://www.smithy.com/product_home.php?cid=1&scid=8&pid=3

I have worked the living piss out of it for the past 5 years. It's time for a tear down and refresh, but No complaints. It owes me nothing.

 

[Chris P.]

Rob - what's the largest size part you machine on that? I originally considered one of those but decided against it because of the limited table size and the mill spindle is awfully close to the lathe spindle.

 

[Bill Musarra]

In our local paper on Sunday(Atlanta Journal and Constitution) they have a section called "The Auction Block". It list everything from supermarket closings to rental tool shops and anything that is going up for auction in the Southeast. Machine shops are on there regularly. They list the technical names of the equipment that is going up for auction. A lot of it goes cheap. Most of the good ones occur during the week, and are frequented by professionals who know the value of the stuff. You can still pick the equipment up reasonably by bidding just over their price(last bid). Some times in the heavy equipment section of the shop tools section, a private owner will sell off his equipment before closing up the shop for good. Just have to be patient and learn the values of the equipment. I saw a grinding wheel in a foundry(5 foot diameter) go for $75. I got a gas welding outfit for $85. Regional papers are best to find these sort of items.

Bill

 

[Rob]

Hey Chris,
Actually the table size is the limiting factor, not the distance to the lather (usually). In a perfect world (i.e. one with lots of money falling from trees) I would have purchased a larger one, but for small shop projects it works great. So..nope, there is no machining cross members, but I machined this bell housing clearance plate with shift cable guides.

 

[Cliff Beer]

Chris, take a good look at the Grizzy stuff. I have a Grizzly combination lathe and mill. The lathe bed is about 48 inches and the mill head and bed is sufficiently sized to do some decent sized work.

It's true that a Bridgeport is more precise and smoother (less chatter) in operation but they are generally quite large and heavy (like, 1,500lbs-2,000lbs+) which potentially causes problems if you don't have a proper placement for it.

One tip for good use of a smaller (smaller than a bridgeport) mill is that you need a solid mounting for it. You'll find that you get chatter if the mill is not properly located to a base of sufficient mass and structure. Chewing through aluminum is pretty easy with carbon bits but if you want to mill some steel then having the mill mounted and squared up properly makes a big difference.

I find that I use the lathe as much or more than the mill - if you don't already have a metal lathe you might find that the lathe is as essential as the mill in producing nice custom pieces, hence, worth taking a look at the combo machines as these are space efficient and less expensive than buying one of each.

Good luck and have fun with the metal work, it's really enjoyable and relaxing. Most importantly, be safe - you want to keep all your fingers!

 

[Malcolm]

Totally concur with what Cliff has just posted. I really ought to get my machines bolted down to the floor for better results.

On Friday this week I am off to have a look at a mates collection of about to be disposed of machinery. I am interested in his 3 phase lathe to up the lathe position in my garage but also a deep throat No6 fly press with hopefully lots of attachments. The question is going to be how to move this stuff not whether I want it!

 

[Phil]

Chris
As mentioned above the small mills don't really cut it even with seemingly small parts and tougher materials.
I have a bridgeport mill (J-head) and I can tell you that it literally weighs a ton. It seems extreme, but even with a small end mill like 3/8 or 1/2" you really need to hold position securely and nothing does this like a heavy set of castings and good tight ways on the sliding parts.
You should be able to pick up a decent machine for about $1,500 or less, and usually when you find a good used machine it is not unusual to get a bunch of tooling, collets and maybe a vise to go along since they are useless to the seller without the machine. Also, a Bridgeport has a good following when it comes to replacement parts, available tooling and accessories such as auto feed drives and maybe a DRO for really accurate and easy positioning. There are also some copies of Bridgeports around that are pretty decent.
The only drawback I can forsee is moving the machine which usually can be done with a good rollback, but they are a bit top heavy, so a good tie-down is essential..
Hope some of this helps
Phil

 

[Chris Kouba]

Thanks for the inputs so far gents. It's all been pretty interesting. As I progress through my build I keep running across things where I think, "Damn, if I only had a mill and lathe I could..."

I kept thinking about a budget one but could never bring myself to pull the trigger. I have lately been scouring craigslist for shops selling off gear so we'll see what happens.

I hear you on the bigger is better (more stable) thing. I just can't quite justify the big machines. I found one which would probably be a good compromise but I was a little too late for it- and it came with a selection of cutters, blocks, and other accessories. I bet another one will come up though.

Thanks for the thought so far.