Fed up with Chinese tools

[John Fitzpatrick]

I just threw out the second engine stand I’ve bought in the last two weeks. I bought the second, better (I thought) and more expensive one, when I noticed the arms on the original stand were beginning to bend and the engine was drooping. Okay, I thought, that’s what you get for $45, spend some money and get a good one.

Well, the second one came yesterday and has the worst quality I think I have ever seen in any product, anywhere! You can thread the nut half way down the length of a 3” long bolt, shake the bolt and see (and hear) the nut rattle in the threads, and that’s just for starters. Simi-round cast wheels, undersized axles, bad welds…the list goes on. So now I’ve wasted $150 on cheap Chinese junk and everything I see online looks to be pretty much the same. I’m not looking for an ISO 9000, NASA-grade stand, just something made by people who take pride in what goes out the door. Surely there’s one out there?

[Russ Noble]

John,

That's a bummer!

Surely in the States there are reputable automotive parts suppliers who will carry engine stands in stock? Reasonable quality, reasonable price? Where you can inspect what you buy before you lay down the money?

I think with internet sales generally there are guys out there trying to make a quick buck. They buy cheap crap and resell it to people expecting a good product. The problem is not that it's Chinese, because there is some good stuff coming out of China. If resellers were diligent and sourced better quality product there would be no problem. The problem is that it's cheap and poorly made and the resellers have unscrupulously bought it. They produce it because they can sell it, if there was no market for it I'm sure the companies involved would lift their game. Market forces do work!

Unfortunately, as the end consumer, you don't always get the quality that you think you are paying for. Must be some redress somewhere?

Over here we've got the Consumer Guarantees Act which basically says that anything that is sold must be capable of doing what it is intended to do and this takes precedence over any manufacturers warranties. Doesn't work with direct off shore purchases, but with anything purchased through a NZ importer you have recourse. So our importers are a bit more selective with what they buy and we really have very little problem with Chinese sourced product. I think crap is crap wherever it is made! You really need to look at the integrity of the importer.

Cheers,

[Mark Worthington]

Originally Posted by Russ Noble

I think crap is crap wherever it is made! You really need to look at the integrity of the importer.

Amazing how 95% of the crap in the world is made in China right now. Yes, greedy, short-sighted importers and resellers bear much of the blame, but the Chinese are also notorious for cutting corners wherever they can to squeeze that last little bit of profit margin from their wares.

Frustrating, isn't it, John? I think I'm seeing something of a backlash going on though. A lot of people are fed up with low-quality goods. This has sustained prices for high-quality goods. Old Bridgeport mills and lathes still bring very good prices against the junk that is sold under the Grizzly name. Hand-crafted Smith & Wesson revolvers, the ones with pinned frames and recessed cylinders, are now getting so tied up in the hands of collectors that it's hard to find one that's a shooter. I recently purchased on Ebay a Rossi 2-stroke model airplane engine that was made in Italy in the 1970s and it is an absolute gem. I also just picked up a Palmgren rotary cross slide table - extremely well made and an heirloom that I can pass on to my kids. I know a lot of like-minded people who will go out of their way to find used, older items of extraordinary quality - quality that is, for the most part, simply not available (yet) in Chinese goods.

Maybe you can just fabricate a stand yourself?

[John Fitzpatrick]

Russ-
I really don't blame China-- they're simply being good Capitalists and serving the market's demands. I've only myself to blame on this- I didn't want to pay too much and I didn't send them back as soon as I realized what I had. You can get a socket wrench set from Harbor Freight for $25 or NAPA for $50, and too many of us don't see, or care about, the difference. From here on, I'm a NAPA man!
Mark-
I know what you mean about the quality of older things. I spent a bunch for my little 6" Craftsman lathe (circa 1940). It was an inexpensive lathe at the time, but compared to what's available new, even at twice the price, it's a watchmaker's tool, and you can still get parts for it! Furniture's another thing that seems to have gone over to SEA. We just bought a an English armoire made in about 1910. The craftsmanship is unbelievable and makes me want to get rid of the new(er) stuff we have.
If you're a firearms man, you would love my wife's Colt Peacemaker. Her uncle was a Texas Ranger, and from the look of the holster and the reputation of the Rangers, it was not a decorative item.

[David S.]

I hear you John. I built up a compressor with a chinese head. It ran 20min then siezed. Now I have to take it all apart take it back get another one and put it all back together. This time I will make sure it has the right type of oil in it. I will drain the old stuff and top it up with a brand name compessor oil. I sould know better from my computer buisiness. I learned the hard way about power supplies, you get what you pay for. I dont have the volume any more but I don't have as many warranty claims and nobody pays you for running around and your time just to save $30 or $40 dollars.

[woodz428]

I'm glad I did most of my tool purchases prior to 1990. Although they were pricey at the time I bought 3 Snap-on engine stands, and I have had some heavy engines on them. One was a Rootes Blown 468 BB Chevy( not mine (-, after 20 + years of constant usage none show any sign of sag. I have a 1936 Olds 6 on one and a '67 GT500 engine on the other currently. I guess this is an example of "you get what you pay for".

[woodz428]

double post

[Rich A]

The problem is not that it's Chinese, because there is some good stuff coming out of China.
I think crap is crap wherever it is made!

So true,

I've seen CRAP built here in the USA.
I've looked at least a 1000 (maybe more) newly constructed homes in the past 12 years.
Seen very bad mud and tape work where you could see every tape line!
Seen walls that had bows that looked like the wall was pregnant!
Windows and doors that were not squared or level.
My list could go on and on.

It has nothing to do with where it was built, but who is doing the quality control and if the company even give a shit.

[Rich A]

Thinking about it,
I worked for a company were the manager said.
I don't care about the QUALITY, I want QUANTITY!
If it isn't fixed or doesn't work right don't worried about it. We can always fix it the next time and sell them more.
Of course when the customer came back he claimed all we sold was Quality items.

[Big-Foot]

Originally Posted by woodz428

I'm glad I did most of my tool purchases prior to 1990. Although they were pricey at the time I bought 3 Snap-on engine stands, and I have had some heavy engines on them. One was a Rootes Blown 468 BB Chevy( not mine (-, after 20 + years of constant usage none show any sign of sag. I have a 1936 Olds 6 on one and a '67 GT500 engine on the other currently. I guess this is an example of "you get what you pay for".

Back in 1973 I bought this tri-pod engine stand that this big mill (468 Iron heads - lotsa mass to kick your a$$) is sitting on. Sorry - this is the best picture I have available right now.. It's 1/4" thick steel tubing. The back plate is probably 3/4" thick, the arms are also 1/4" thick steel loops.
I recall paying $75 for it back then and that was a BUNCH of money. I would expect to pay $250-$300 for it today and would in a heartbeat if MAS (Minnesota Auto Speciatlies) still made them..

You're right. The Chinese engine stands are garbage. I had one that was labeled "CUMMINS" (like the Diesel engine folks) along side the CUMMINS sticker was one that read 1000#. I had a 454 Chevy short-block on it and it was folding up more day by day. Finally it sagged to the point where I could not turn the block over as it was hitting the rear upright.
I gave it away with the caveat that I would not put anything heavier than 200# on it..

[Chris P.]

OK, on the topic of engine stands, since I need one, does anyone have any suggestions for good quality without the high price for poor bastards like me? I'm looking for a 1000# one. 750 would probably cut it, but at some point I'll be putting a BMW 3.5 liter straight 6 on there and would rather go for 1000.

[woodz428]

The one thing that I notice that is unique to these engine stands,and I have seen quite a few, is the plate the engine is mounted to uses a solid piece of steel (I'd have to measure it, but it is probably 2" in diameter) to rotate on. Most I have seen use a tube which slides,loosely, into the larger tube on the dolley part. The solid shaft on these is a very close fit to the tube that it rotates in. It seems to me that the solid shaft and close fit within the dolley tube are the reasons that these seem to have no noticeable change in the last couple decades. They look pretty ordinary to the casual observer, but they really shine when you get a big load on them and they keep the crank parallel to the floor. They weren't cheap when I bought them and don't even want to guess what they cost now. When I purchased them I was pricing a tranny jack, which I would have used rarely, and found that I could by 2 engine stands and a cherry picker for the price of one tranny jack. Decision made. I bought the 3rd one almost immediately after I used one. If you only plan on using it once or twice I can't really suggest, however, if you expect it to see regular usage pay the extra bucks. While it may cost more, I can't imagine it being anywhere as costly as a nice engine that somehow hit the ground when a cheaper one collapsed while you were out of the shop.

[woodz428]

another double post,seem to have had trouble twice today with the reply button. How do I delete?? when I click the edit button it shows edit/delete, but I can't seem to see any delete option when I get here.