Guns.

[Pete.]

The paddock has been a bit quiet of late so here goes. It is about ten years since Australians were banned from having guns.
Last night in Melbourne there was a shootout between police and an alleged offender. One cop shot in the leg, and the alleged bad guy shot dead.
How can that happen when guns have been banned for ten years?

One man dead in shootout with police

[Scott Calabro]

Because when guns are outlawed, only outlaws have guns.

[Big-Foot]

The USA could take some lessons here...

[John]

The biggest thing about guns is that people think they are magically made; that they need some sort of high tech machinery to be produced. I bet 90% of the people who read this forum are more than capable of building a modern weapon. How can you ban them when you can make one in just a basic shop?




Funny thing, I never hear the gun grabbers talk about Australia being a model for banning guns.

[Simon]

They banned guns over here, years ago now. Took all the weapons off the sports and target shooters...somehow all the criminals were allowed to keep theirs. More shootings than ever now!

Simon

[Brian Hamilton]

An armed society is a polite society... I highly believe in that. Once you start gun control, you only control the law abiding citizens Criminals are criminals and will just keep their illegal weapons. After all it's just another charge. They can take my guns from my cold dead hands, and that's all I have to say about that. Wanna see mine? Suuuuuuuuuuure you do.....



My H&K .308 cal. G3 and Magnum Research .40 cal. Baby Eagle. Next I will get a Remington 870 12 gauge and a Saiga 12. Look up the Saiga 12.

[Freewheel]

They're not banned, but it's quite a bit more difficult now.

One of the most significant changes is that it's now completely socially unacceptable to identify yourself as somebody who has any involvement whatsoever with firearms of any type, unless you are a member of police or defence forces, or are a security guard (quite how security guards are somehow acceptable in this scenario is something I just can't understand).

There have been some small changes but basically we're all stuffed, so Scott's quote is absolutely on the money.

Quite ironic that the government was quite happy for me to be proficient with the things while they paid me, but now that I've left the nest they won't let me get my own toys.

Many years ago a state police force (not Victoria) decided to replace the venerable S&W service revolvers with a Glock model. The polymer frame of the Glock allowed the crest of the state police force to be moulded into it. A container load arrived in Melbourne, where it was stolen.

To date, at least 15 years on, not one has been recovered. Feel safe?


Makes me want to move. I believe Oregon & Montana are nice, with good mountain roads, amongst other opportunities....

[Mark Worthington]

I think most car guys like guns because they're interesting mechanical devices, because they make a lot of noise, and because they scare women, children and liberals. Sometimes they can be gorgeous - I own a Smith & Wesson Model 27 .357 magnum revolver that is nearly as old as I am, and I really appreciate the craftsmanship that went into that handgun. Gorgeous blue finish, pinned barrel, recessed cylinders, hand fitted, locks up like a bank vault, and a trigger that's just perfect.

I'm afraid, though, that if Mr. Obama wins the white house this year, it will spell bad news for US gun owners, as he seems to be in favor of draconian gun control of the sort that the statist nannies implemented in England and Australia. It's even more discouraging to think of the type of supreme court justices he would be likely to appoint. I think the criminals would be happy though - studies have shown that the thing criminals fear most is an armed victim.

[Foowowee]

gunchick

[David S.]

Mark,
You guys in Mass. have the same strick gun laws that we have in Canada. Part of the problem in the US are the gun dealers selling guns to just anybody in some states. They always end up heading north NewYork city and and here on the streets. Responsable gun owners with proper background checks with courses on care and storage are not the problem.
Dave

[Simon]

The difference between the UK and the US is that you had to prove your guns were for target/sports shooting. You had to have a safe secure place to keep them, you had to provide evidence of membership of a shooting club/organisation. The guns over here were not like the US, used for self defence, they were for sport ONLY. The guns over here were supposed to be in safe hands.
When the Dunblane tragedy happened, nobody in the shooting community could stand up and say "we are safe" because the shooting of those children was by a "member" of the shooting community.
How could any of us stand up and argue for us to keep our pistols, when we were looked upon as the "guilty" parties. As far as I and pretty much anyone else is concerned, the police were MUCH more to blame for those terrible events.
The police allowed Thomas Hamilton to keep his gun licence DESPITE warnings about his character, DESPITE him taking his guns out in a public place, DESPITE him showing his guns to the local school children. Yet the person responsible for letting him keep/renew his licence, faced no charges and was allowed to slip quietly out of the force. I wonder if he has nightmares? I hope so.
Sorry guys rant over.

Simon

ps for those not in the UK, more info here Dunblane massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Cliff Beer]

Bumper sticker recently spotted: guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

[stewrough]

The US is a great place where something like 30,000 are killed each year with guns. A lot of those are probably accidents involving family members and you are the School shooting capital of the world. I watched Michael Moores film Bowling for Columbine and think how lucky we are in Australia without a gun or 2 in every house.

I may sound like an anti gun lobbiest, but I grew up on a farm, shot birds and rabbits for sport and fun. I owned several shot guns and rifles and when the gun controls came in I had to sell them back to the government. Since then I have not missed owning weapons at all. It may make criminals more affraid if you have a weapon, but if the weapons are really hard to get for me they are probably just as hard to get for a criminal. Most guns used by crims are probably stolen anyway. We had a mass shooting in Tasmania where 33 died and the guns used where stolen from a relative.

Americans can keep quoting a 200 year old ammendment to back up their case, but 200 years ago people had horses and carts, move into the modern world where guns are not required in a civilized society.

Less Guns = Less shootings. It a simple equation.

[Pete.]

Originally Posted by stewrough

Less Guns = Less shootings. It a simple equation.

I'm interested if you have hard statistics to back that statement up.
Less guns may equal less shooting accidents, but it appears to me that gun related crime has increased markedly since they were banned after the tragedy in Tasmania.

[Brian Hamilton]

Less guns = less shootings...

I somehow doubt that. Maybe the simple fact that less guns = less possible shootings, but if I were a criminal and knew noone had a weapon besides myself, I wouldn't have to shoot people. Just the threat of getting shot would persuade anyone to give me anything. BUT, on the other hand, if I knew that there's a strong possibility that the person I'm thinking about robbing has a .45 tucked under their jacket, I'm going to think twice. I said it before and I'll say it again...

An Armed Society Is A Polite Society.

Also, Obama, Clinton, & McCain are all in favor of gun control in one form or another. Obama & Clinton are just more in favor of total control where McCain is in favor of more stringent background checks and licensing. I'm glad I live in Texas where I can purchase just about anything I want.
And Yes, I like guns because they're machines. They serve a purpose and do it well. I like the more complicated and more beautiful guns. I like to take them apart and see exactly what goes on in there. No electronics, just mechanical interaction.
My rifle is for sport, lots of target shooting and since we live in the country, I have shot at some Coyotes at times. BUT, if they decide they want us to sell the guns back to the government, I'll be a criminal I guess because it's not happening. Sorry.

[Big-Foot]

Originally Posted by Conquest351

Less guns = less shootings...

I somehow doubt that. Maybe the simple fact that less guns = less possible shootings, but if I were a criminal and knew noone had a weapon besides myself, I wouldn't have to shoot people. Just the threat of getting shot would persuade anyone to give me anything. BUT, on the other hand, if I knew that there's a strong possibility that the person I'm thinking about robbing has a .45 tucked under their jacket, I'm going to think twice. I said it before and I'll say it again...

An Armed Society Is A Polite Society.

Curious..

What do you suppose the percentage of Concealed Carry adoption is here in the USA?
Do you think it might be as high as 1% ?
Do you ever think it would get as high as 10% ?

If you were a really bad guy - capable of taking another life - would a 1 in 10 chance that your intended victim is armed even begin to alter your intentions or influence them in any way?

Somehow I doubt it.

I used to be a hunter in my younger days (teen years).
Having hunted humans and been hunted by other humans during my service in the military - I find I have no time for guns any longer.

Having seen the results time and time again where innocent people's lives are taken - well quite frankly - I've seen enough...
You've been to my house Brian. You know that I live in the inner-city of a large metropolitan area. What you didn't know is that I can stand out on the stoop behind my house on any given weekend evening and hear what many would think to be firecrackers in the distance. They're not firecrackers Brian. They're bullets being fired.

I would contend that your last sentence;

An Armed Society Is A Polite Society.

Should really read - An Armed Society is a Society living in constant fear..

Sorry if my viewpoints on this subject changes the way that any of you may feel about me as a person - but we're all entitled to our opinions when living in free nations.

[chuck smith]

if I could snap my fingers and make every gun go away, I would. I feel the same for nuclear weapons. However, the genie is out of the bottle and that cannot happen, so in the meantime I do not wish to be the victim of well meaning but poorly thought out laws that force me to become a criminal or become the victim of someone that has no intention of changing his criminal behavior. Australia has done a much better job at controlling immigration and thus reducing the crime that follows, so gun control has been better recieved. Here in the states that is not the case.If gun control come to the US, I will follow the old Russian addage" Why do Russians oil their gardens? to keep their guns from rusting"

[craig]

US Senator Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun...
(bumper sticker)

[chuck smith]

Randy, your comments should offend no one. Your sentiments are perfectly valid, if not well recieved by the majority here. There is no reason to feel your opinion has to be like others.

[Keith Hardy]

Originally Posted by Big-Foot

Should really read - An Armed Society is a Society living in constant fear..

Well said.....