More Financial Information - Banking Crisis

Gals and Guys,

Just got this from a friend in the states. I can't believe that it is strictly the Democratic's fault. Perhaps others would like to comment on the collapse of the Ayr Bank in Scotland.

Best
Dom



Social engineers are bad bankers

John Montgomery | October 01, 2008

IN 1772, the collapse of the Ayr Bank led to the Edinburgh banking crisis of
that year. Only three of Edinburgh's 30 private banks survived. Adam Smith
commented that "the operations of this bank seem to have produced effects
quite opposite from what was intended". The Ayr Bank had been established in
1770 to provide long-term loans and provide credit to people who otherwise
found it difficult to borrow, financing a speculative boom in housing,
turnpikes and canals, the transport infrastructure of the time.

It borrowed from other banks in London and Edinburgh and, as borrowers began
to default, it had to pay off its debts by securing greater loans. Smith's
final verdict on its collapse was that it only enabled borrowers "to get
much deeper into debt, so that when ruin came, it fell so much the heavier".
The British economy struggled to recover until the 1780s.

The collapse of the Ayr Bank tells us much about the present crisis.

In 1999, then president Bill Clinton instructed the Fannie Mae Corporation
to ease credit requirements on loans to ethnic minorities and low-income
earners. In this nationwide scheme, the pilot program alone involved 24
banks. This was to include what became known as the sub-prime sector. Fannie
Mae's chairman and chief executive in 1999 said that in addition to
"reducing down payment requirements" the corporation would underwrite loans
in the sub-prime market. Fannie Mae's board is largely made up of prominent
Democrats.

Fannie Mae and its sister corporation Freddie Mac are government-sponsored
enterprises, exempted from taxation and with any losses guaranteed by public
monies, although shares of profits go overwhelmingly to investors,
executives and board members with shares. This is a hangover from its
foundation in 1938 as a means to provide liquidity in the mortgage market
that had collapsed following the Wall Street crash of 1929. The idea was to
provide federal money to local banks, which would then finance home loans at
below market interest rates. Fannie Mae held a virtual monopoly of what
became known as the US secondary mortgage market until 1968, when Lyndon B.
Johnson converted it into a private corporation or, rather, a
government-supported enterprise. A second GSE, Freddie Mac (the Federal Home
Mortgage Corporation) was established in 1970.

It is important to note that Fannie Mae does not lend money directly to
consumers, it purchases loans that banks make on the secondary market. This
was made possible by Fannie Mae being allowed, uniquely, to borrow money
from overseas at low interest rates backed by the US government. It passed
this on to borrowers in low down payments and fixed rate mortgages. The
parallels with the Ayr Bank are startling.

However, the strategy announced in 1999 was to spur the banks to make more
loans to people with poor credit rating, and especially to blacks and
Hispanics. This was done by offering mortgages at 1 per cent above the
standard variable rate. Home ownership rates among these groups had in fact
been growing rapidly during the period 1993-98, 87 per cent for Hispanics
and 72 per cent for blacks, but this was considered insufficient to close
the gap between these and other groups. As early as 1998, Fannie Mae was
already making 44 per cent of its purchases from loans to these groups.

Not everyone was convinced this was a good idea. Peter Wallison of the
American Enterprise Institute warned: "If they fail, the government will
have to step up and bail them out." The US Senate finance committee in 2005
considered a bill to increase scrutiny of Fannie Mae and its accountancy
mechanisms. In 2003 it had been revealed that Freddie Mac's accounting
practices contained $4.5 billion worth of errors brought about by the
removal of three of the company's top executives. By this time, combined
debt at Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae was equal to 46 per cent of then national
debt. The then US Federal Reserve chairman, Alan Greenspan, warned of
forthcoming financial collapse if Fannie Mae's activities were not reined
in.

The bill was opposed by the Democrats, and lost.

The trigger that caused the bubble to burst was the raising of interest
rates by the Federal Reserve in 2006 and 2007, to ward off a perceived risk
of inflation. This sent mortgage payments through the roof and hundreds of
thousands of Fannie Mae's customers defaulted on their payments. To make
matters much worse, the banks had been buying and selling loans from each
other before selling them to Fannie Mae. With the collapse in the housing
market came the collapse of Fannie Mae and the loans it had purchased from
the banks. Before long, the banks were collapsing too, not all of them but
those that had bought and sold sub-prime loans. Defaults are now running at
almost 3per cent of all mortgages in the US, representing hundreds of
thousands of loans.

The culprits in all of this are the executives and board members of Fannie
Mae for buying unsecured and risky loans, the Federal Reserve for putting up
interest rates too far and too quickly, and the banks for what almost
amounts to pyramid selling of bad debt based on fools' mortgages. Fannie
Mae's structural flaws were an accident waiting tohappen.

But there is another culprit. The Clinton administration, in pressuring
Fannie Mae, created the policy of lending initially good and then bad money
to people who were themselves bad credit risks. This was done for good
political - not to say politically correct - reasons: the targeted extension
of home ownership to minority groups. But this social engineering has been
achieved at a heavy cost, not least to those who have lost their houses and
taxpayers who may now have to pick up the cost of an emergency package.
People awarded such loans may well be forgiven for thinking they are now
worse off than they were in 1999.

The lesson of all of this is not that Wall Street is greedy, nor even that
banks should be limited in onselling debt, although periodically this is
true. The main lesson is that banking and credit should be run on sound
banking principles rather than as a political project. For where politicians
become involved in banking, as in the case of the Democrats and Fannie Mae,
only incompetence, pork-barrelling and corruption will follow.

As Smith put it: "I have never known much good done by those who affected to
trade for the public good. The sober and frugal debtors of private persons
would be more likely to employ the money borrowed in sober undertakings
which, though they might have less of the grand and marvellous, would have
more of the solid and the profitable." The sooner we get back to this the
better.

Bailing out bankrupt banks will only prolong the pain. It is likely markets
will, left to their own devices, recover as growth in the real economy
starts coming back. It is equally likely panic measures will be taken, just
as they were in 1938, when the worst was over.

John Montgomery's latest book is The New Wealth of Cities.
 
Not an economyst here, but suspect very soon the american wave of crysis will hit even more hardly all Europe...and then will be time to move,but dunno where.

Does anybody need an italian waiter somewhere out there?...
 

Brian Hamilton

I'm on the verge of touching myself inappropriatel
I worked in the sub-prime mortgage business the beginning of 2007. It was great! I made more money there than I ever had before. I was just a sales & marketing rep for the company I worked for that was owned by a friend of mine who liked my style I guess. haha. Here's how it all went down...

Monday: Get a call from him in the morning...
"Dude, things are looking rough. You should start looking for another job soon. We still have a month or so of good money, but shit is about to hit the fan. The market is about to take a dive."
"Ok, I'll start looking." I reply.

Thursday: Just getting in my car after eating lunch and making my morning rounds, and I get this call...
"Hey, it's Patrick..."
"What's going on man? You sound upset?"
"Bro, 12 banks went out of business this morning. The bottom has fallen out of the sub-prime market. Some companies have been really shady and putting people in homes they never should have gotten into. Now none of them can afford the payments and the foreclosure rate has shot through the roof. We're dead man. I can't afford to pay you to do your job anymore. I don't know how much longer I'm going to be able to keep my door open."
"WHAT?! I thought I had a few months left? I haven't even started to look for a job man! I'm screwed! You haven't been doing any of that shady crap have you?"
"I know, and I feel like I set you up for failure. We haven't done anything shady. I don't work like that. I put people in homes they could afford, they just had low credit or marginal credit. Everyone deserves a chance to own a home. But these other companies are putting poor people in extravagant homes way beyond their means. They're putting them in homes that the entire family income pays just the mortgage. That leaves no room for gas, groceries, etc. I NEVER did anything like that. I want you to know that you worked for apparently the only straight sub-prime company, if that's worth anything. I'm sorry man, I never thought this would happen."

And that was it. I worked there for 6 weeks and made about $6500. That's awesome money for me. But now guess where I work? I'm a Real Estate Agent!!! Yaaaaaay.... Seems that everywhere I work, the market for that job starts to suck. I mainly sell farm & ranch land and commercial property, so business is still OK. Residential real estate is really sucking!! Anyway, if anyone needs to invest in some Texas land, let me know. Haha I have a few properties that are slated for wind turbines... That's a nice income generating deal right there.

Anyway, thanks for letting me rant,

Brian
 
Yeah, I doubt the Clinton's administration doings are the blame for this. What probably happened is that it just gave the lenders a market they didn't have before, namely the lower income market. If the lenders didn't dole out mortgages in the greedy fashion that they did, this problem could have been largely averted, and those lower income families would actually have houses to own. Give an inch, take a mile.
 

Brian Hamilton

I'm on the verge of touching myself inappropriatel
Yeah, I doubt the Clinton's administration doings are the blame for this. What probably happened is that it just gave the lenders a market they didn't have before, namely the lower income market. If the lenders didn't dole out mortgages in the greedy fashion that they did, this problem could have been largely averted, and those lower income families would actually have houses to own. Give an inch, take a mile.

Yep, that's exactly what happened. The program was put into place to help lower income families realize the dream of owning a home. The greedy crooked companies got creative with their information in order to get them financed in a manner they wouldn't be able to afford. They were putting them into adjustable rate mortgages that inflated beyond their means. That's what happened, THAT'S what has put us where we are now.

This is a prime example of a good idea gone bad, or twisted around to bite us all in the ass. It's amazing what crooked people do...
 

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
How about sheeting home some of the responsibility to the borrower? Surely it is dishonest to take out a loan knowing that you will have difficulty re paying at best, or at worst, no hope of paying at all?

We have developed a culture where people want the house, the two cars, the plasma T.V. etc. And they borrow beyond their means and max out the credit cards to have them and when the stuff hits the fan they blame everyone but themselves and want the Government (tax payer) to bail them out.

I am sick of people not taking responsibility for their own actions.
 
Yep.

The Clinton plan did not force any of the following to occur:

1) While the plan eased credit requirements and created the sub-prime sector,
it was the banks and lenders that decided to pitch ridiculous ARMs as a way
of making money. Had the sub-prime loans been fixed, many of the consumers
would not have been in dire straits. The ballooning ARMs wreaked havoc.
remember, if the banks were only able to write fixed rate loans at 1% above
the inter bank loan rate, sure over 30 years they would make money, but
in the short run that wasn't attractive. ARMs allowed them to make minimal
profit at first, but the balloon would create a nice windfall in 3/5/7/10 years,
instead of 30.

2) As the sub prime loans and ARMs made, say $150K homes more affordable,
it also made $300K homes more affordable. And, when faced with the choice,
how many consumers opted to go for the $300K house? Ignoring that when the
ARM adjusts, that now affordable payment would double or even triple?

3) The real estate market, where agents and sellers alike saw that as more
ridiculous loans were made available, people could borrow more, and therefore,
they could ask for more. Thus driving the prices up even further, padding the
seller's profit margin as well as the agent's commission.

4) Nobody at the government level saw (or rather, they saw but ignored)
what the banks/lenders were doing. Again, Clinton's program just urged
the banks/lenders to cut rates for the lower income demographic, the
actual implementation was, apparently, left up to the banks/lenders.

In all cases, greed abounded. People extended their credit in the short term to
buy more, usually with the hope that they could flip it before the ARMs adjusted,
and make a tidy profit. The sellers took the lower price of entry for the loans as
a green light to raise prices to make profit. The lenders saw the chance to market
marginal loans that showed slim profits in the short run, but "banked" on the fact
that they would adjust and they would reap the benefits. And, from a government
perspective, it sure made the economy look healthy - rising house prices, more
home ownership, more profits, more taxes.

Ian
 

Gregg

Gregg
Lifetime Supporter
Yep.

The Clinton plan did not force any of the following to occur:

1) While the plan eased credit requirements and created the sub-prime sector,
it was the banks and lenders that decided to pitch ridiculous ARMs as a way
of making money. Had the sub-prime loans been fixed, many of the consumers
would not have been in dire straits. The ballooning ARMs wreaked havoc.
remember, if the banks were only able to write fixed rate loans at 1% above
the inter bank loan rate, sure over 30 years they would make money, but
in the short run that wasn't attractive. ARMs allowed them to make minimal
profit at first, but the balloon would create a nice windfall in 3/5/7/10 years,
instead of 30.

2) As the sub prime loans and ARMs made, say $150K homes more affordable,
it also made $300K homes more affordable. And, when faced with the choice,
how many consumers opted to go for the $300K house? Ignoring that when the
ARM adjusts, that now affordable payment would double or even triple?

3) The real estate market, where agents and sellers alike saw that as more
ridiculous loans were made available, people could borrow more, and therefore,
they could ask for more. Thus driving the prices up even further, padding the
seller's profit margin as well as the agent's commission.

4) Nobody at the government level saw (or rather, they saw but ignored)
what the banks/lenders were doing. Again, Clinton's program just urged
the banks/lenders to cut rates for the lower income demographic, the
actual implementation was, apparently, left up to the banks/lenders.

In all cases, greed abounded. People extended their credit in the short term to
buy more, usually with the hope that they could flip it before the ARMs adjusted,
and make a tidy profit. The sellers took the lower price of entry for the loans as
a green light to raise prices to make profit. The lenders saw the chance to market
marginal loans that showed slim profits in the short run, but "banked" on the fact
that they would adjust and they would reap the benefits. And, from a government
perspective, it sure made the economy look healthy - rising house prices, more
home ownership, more profits, more taxes.

Ian

No it did not force the events, HOWEVER, it made the foregoing events possible. Government will have has much control over greed as they do over prejudice. Although the CRA may have had noble intentions, it is just another social program of the government which went ary. Why does anyone believe the government can run a program of this magnitude efficiently? Why was their a need for the CRA anyway? Because the lower income families could not afford a home? I have no problem assisting the less fortunate, but I have been told stories of my relatives STRUGGLING when they came to this country. They did not receive assistance, weren't looking for a handout or expecting "entitlements" like the current climate. If you couldn't afford something, guess what, you didn't buy it. Unfortunatelly the mindset of people today is that not only must they start at the top, but it is a "me first" attitude coupled with the need for immediate gratification to have the best of everything now. The bottom line is that it takes time, hard work and sometimes more than one generation for a family to afford a house, or the so called "good life". Education is a large part of the problem. It is hard for your children to do better than you, or attain the "good life" if they drop out of school. Couple that with people's attitude of buying large screen TV's and $200.00 sneakers for their kids etc., because that's what so and so has. It doesn't matter that the high priced goods cost as much as a month's rent. We are in a sad state which I do not see a resolution anytime soon. I fear the bailout may cause more problems in the long run. My two cents.
 
more to thr point.

Q. How do you know when a politition is telling the truth?

A. When he is accusing the opposition of lying.

Darrell
DRB chassis 47
 
I have been in the Mortgage industry for 25 years, lastly retired out of Countrywide 2 years ago.
All of this ranting and misinformed bull**** is just that.
During the last run up in home prices there was a tremendous pressure on the lending industry to come up with more creative ways to deal with the soaring cost of housing.
Cities were trying to redevelope aging centers and infrastructure and applauded the run up in increased property taxes, counties and states desperately wanted to convert vacant land into tax generating housing tracts(with schools, parks, streets etc paid for by the developer), shopping centers and industrial parks.
People who weren't home owners realized that they were missing out and everybody became a buyer, not because it was important to own their own home but as a way to get rich!
This was a Ponzi scheme that took years before it ran out of takers and those who jumped on this train in 2005-6 were way too late.
No matter what sort of creative loan products were available it just wasn't possible for a hotel maid or a bicycle mechanic to live in a $500,000- $1,000,000 home but they all tried and there were lots of fraudsters out there to help them out.
All of these folks wanted a part of the American dream and all felt that some how, if given a chance, they and 10 of their relatives would never go to another movie or eat out again. They would take a bus or ride a bicycle to work, they would take in a room mate, no sacrifice would be too great.
Just give them a chance!
This honeymoon lasted about 30 days -6 months and they began to realize it just wasn't worth it, they had no money invested, property values leveled off, they would have to pay money out of their pockets to sell, "My God! nobody told me that real estate prices could ever go down!" "Everybody lied to me!" " I saw that my house payment would be $3,500/ mo but my Realtor/lender knew I only make $1,500/mo so I signed anyway thinking it was a mistake, after all they are the professionals."
Bottom line is this, huge wealth was created out of very little, millions made lots of money and nobody complained until now!
I could go on but it is late and this rant can be continued.
Dave
 

Gregg

Gregg
Lifetime Supporter
I have been in the Mortgage industry for 25 years, lastly retired out of Countrywide 2 years ago.
All of this ranting and misinformed bull**** is just that.
During the last run up in home prices there was a tremendous pressure on the lending industry to come up with more creative ways to deal with the soaring cost of housing.
Cities were trying to redevelope aging centers and infrastructure and applauded the run up in increased property taxes, counties and states desperately wanted to convert vacant land into tax generating housing tracts(with schools, parks, streets etc paid for by the developer), shopping centers and industrial parks.
People who weren't home owners realized that they were missing out and everybody became a buyer, not because it was important to own their own home but as a way to get rich!
This was a Ponzi scheme that took years before it ran out of takers and those who jumped on this train in 2005-6 were way too late.
No matter what sort of creative loan products were available it just wasn't possible for a hotel maid or a bicycle mechanic to live in a $500,000- $1,000,000 home but they all tried and there were lots of fraudsters out there to help them out.
All of these folks wanted a part of the American dream and all felt that some how, if given a chance, they and 10 of their relatives would never go to another movie or eat out again. They would take a bus or ride a bicycle to work, they would take in a room mate, no sacrifice would be too great.
Just give them a chance!
This honeymoon lasted about 30 days -6 months and they began to realize it just wasn't worth it, they had no money invested, property values leveled off, they would have to pay money out of their pockets to sell, "My God! nobody told me that real estate prices could ever go down!" "Everybody lied to me!" " I saw that my house payment would be $3,500/ mo but my Realtor/lender knew I only make $1,500/mo so I signed anyway thinking it was a mistake, after all they are the professionals."
Bottom line is this, huge wealth was created out of very little, millions made lots of money and nobody complained until now!
I could go on but it is late and this rant can be continued.
Dave

Dave, just a few comments.

"During the last run up in home prices there was a tremendous pressure on the lending industry to come up with more creative ways to deal with the soaring cost of housing."

Where are your facts to support this? A simple solution to contain the housing boom, and might I add not too creative, would have been responsible lending. If all the free money stopped, houses wouldn't have sold and the prices would have fallen.

"Cities were trying to redevelope aging centers and infrastructure and applauded the run up in increased property taxes, counties and states desperately wanted to convert vacant land into tax generating housing tracts(with schools, parks, streets etc paid for by the developer), shopping centers and industrial parks"

Facts please. As far as I know, the majority of funding to redevelop aging centers and infrastructure usually is done by state bonds/grants and the taxes we already pay or dare I say it, a tax increase.

"No matter what sort of creative loan products were available it just wasn't possible for a hotel maid or a bicycle mechanic to live in a $500,000- $1,000,000 home but they all tried and there were lots of fraudsters out there to help them out.
All of these folks wanted a part of the American dream and all felt that some how, if given a chance, they and 10 of their relatives would never go to another movie or eat out again. They would take a bus or ride a bicycle to work, they would take in a room mate, no sacrifice would be too great."

Too true!

I going to make an assumption here.
I assume that most rationale and somewhat intelligent people make decisons in their lives based upon some type of risk assessment and that there will be consequences to their actions. If I have "y" but I want "x", it will cost me so much. Can I afford it? What is my loss? Do I have a backdoor to escape??

Now lets turn to the financial crisis.
Where is the bank's risk in making the subprime loans when they know full well that they are guaranteed by Uncle Sam? There is no risk. What is the upside to the bank? The bank makes money. Lets face it. Not only did bank executives make plenty, in case of an implosion, they knew the US government would be there to pick up the pieces. Where was the incentive for responsible lending? The incentive left the room when banks were mandated to lend money "creatively". The incentive was miles away when the lending was unregulated.

"All of this ranting and misinformed bull**** is just that"

I would love to know the real truth. If you have it, please post or pm me. Thanks
(Please do not take the above as a personal attack. It is not meant to be. What I find extremely difficult is for people, even after watching the video's of our illustrious leaders and hearing their testimony, still deny the cause and can find no fault with their party of choosing.)

RESPONSIBILTY - it is a word which has almost been fazed out of the English language.
 
David - I think you are misinterpreting what people are saying. For years now, I have been saying that something is going to happen with the housing sector simply because house prices have been increasing faster than incomes. The state we are in now is due in part on the lenders but also on the borrowers. There were borrowers looking to get rich off of a simple long term real estate investment or a flip, there were people who were simply living way beyond their means, and there were people who were simply trying to buy a home that were wrongfully led into a bad financial situation.

My wife and I live well inside our means. We drive older, used cars with no payments due. We don't even watch TV let alone pay for satellite or cable on a huge 50" set. We don't have cell phones. We pay our credit card off every single month. We have dial up internet (not by choice though admittedly). We have our second child on the way with my wife only working part time yet we can still afford our mortgage payments. When we bought the house we are currently in 2 years ago, our real estate agent who is the same age as us left her job in the security sector to become a real estate agent. She soon bought a brand new Mercedes SUV. Her husband then left his job in the security sector and joined her in real estate. Remember that point about real estate rising faster than income? Did real estate agents' commissions change respectively? Nooooo. They were beginning to make GOBS of money. Hmmmm... nothing wrong with trying to make money, but again, I knew that was a greedy, bad decision for those two putting all their eggs in one basket. I don't know how they're doing now, but I would bet they are either making some serious changes or are very worried. My point is, I think many of us saw this coming from more than one angle. You mentioned uninformed bullshit and then go on to say that there was "tremendous pressure on the lending industry to come up with more creative ways to deal with the soaring cost of housing" Who says they had to mislead people into big mortgages? Creative lending should have put those people into affordable mortgages, otherwise it's not creative. And don't blame the CRA - it didn't put people into big mortgages, the lenders did. Again, many borrowers themselves were greedy too and put themselves into those mortgages, I know.

Basically, I think we are all pretty much in agreement, so I'm confused as to the bullshit comment.

Personally, I am tempted to have the government not do anything and let those that made the bad decisions pay the consequences. I know that innocents will be hurt by that, but that will always be the case no matter what is done. I just want to see people pay their dues.
 
David,

I agree with most of what you say, but there is one sticking point.

The run up of housing prices was partially due to the fact that mortgage rates dropped
and these ridiculous ARMs were pitched that lowered the price of entry. I agree
the lending industry may have been pressured, but why didn't they put a cap
on it at some point? The result was cyclic. Housing costs go up, loan packages appeared that allowed people to afford the higher prices, which allowed sellers to ask for more
and allowed consumers to get more, which made housing costs rise further, which again
led the lenders to push out more creative loans, etc.

Again, greed abounded on all sides - the sellers looking to maximize profit, the buyers
either looking to make a quick killing or just plain trying to purchase more than they
could afford, and the lenders trying to put out attractive packages that would still
yield big returns. And. lest we forget, the government on both sides was happy to
let housing costs soar since that was the only thing post 9/11 that kept our economy
afloat.

Chris - I agree. I am tempted to let it all crumble. Just this morning on the radio I
heard a guy call in and cry that he lost $300K on the stock market recently. Wow,
I wish I had $300K to lose.

Ian
 
Ian,

I think you hit a really good point. After 9/11, the economy was in a real dire condition. That is why I think all of the government officials let the scenario continue to run. Doesn't matter which party or state.

We have a similar problem here in the UK with house prices that got to the point of being ridcules. Radio talk people talked about 4 and 5 x annual income mortages. But we do have variable rate mortages, and when the rates go up, they don't come down anywhere near as fast.
At day's end, the system just got out of hand, and now we are paying the price.

Best
Dom
 

Neal

Lifetime Supporter
I am sick of people not taking responsibility for their own actions.
Pete, you are my brother from another mother!

How do you solve a problem when you can't even quantify it. Congress seams to think throwing money at it will work. I have NO desire to be part owner of a failed savings and loan institution or placate unethical business practice by funding recovery of the banking industry. Take a look at the recovery plan. Notice the fat that has been added because self serving constituents want to cover their a$$es. Nobody wants to admit they voted for the war and they sure as hell shouldn't be proud of this debacle. They have also failed to realize that it's a world economy folks.

The motivation that grew this country into the richest nation in the world has been erroding away for years. Easy credit is a drug. The words of Milton Friedman ring true, "There is no free lunch!"
 
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