F1 2009

[Keith 'Baron' Hardy]

Can't say I blame them - £300 million a year and nowt to show for it except negative publicity, same for Toyota.

It's a mess of their own making though - they were amongst the "players" that upped the ante and made Bernie rich and the "sport" poor. They were always going to throw their toys out when the going got tough. Ford Motor Co is perhaps most famous for it - history always repeats itself..

Sometimes it's better to let things fade away and allow them re-invent themselves instead of chasing impossible milliseconds..

Who will pick up JB? Why would you want to?

For 2009, who would want to bet that they will allow GP2 cars to run to make up the grids??

[Dave Peterman]

Sorry to hear the news I know how much you chaps love F-1.
Yikes 300 million. A full year for a top nascar team is only about 21 million.

Maybe all these guys (nascar and F-1) need an immediate ban on private jets, 53 foot RV's and haul on open trailers that would cut the budgets.

[Ron Earp]

There is better racing in other series' around the world. Evolution is a good thing.

[David Sturch]

The Player's Formula Alantic and the Formula Pacific Series was fun to watch. You could run the whole series in North America for 300 milllion pounds.
Gee Ron I wonder if the Team Jet Transporter will be up for sale.
Dave

[David Morton]

Prodrive - locally based in Banbury which is close to Brackley, the HQ for Honda F1, are rumoured to be taking over the Honda F1 team and slashing the team's costs to around 25%.
The rumoured cost to Prodrive? £1
When will it happen? Apparently today - Sunday.

[Freewheel]

Originally Posted by David Morton

Prodrive - locally based in Banbury which is close to Brackley, the HQ for Honda F1, are rumoured to be taking over the Honda F1 team and slashing the team's costs to around 25%.
The rumoured cost to Prodrive? £1
When will it happen? Apparently today - Sunday.

Prodrive would be the best thing for Honda - or the remains of Honda's team.

It would also be a very good vehicle for Prodrive's hybrid technology as per their recently acquired equity partner....

[David Morton]

Carlin Motorsport and Dubai Investment Capital may be behind Prodrive in the quest to gain control of the Honda Wreckage.

[Keith 'Baron' Hardy]

Anyone have an update on this story? I know Dave Richards was keen to field an F1 team in 2008 but it never happened..

Problem with the Honda deal is that they have stated that they will not supply engines either.. so, the 2009 Honda chassis (presumably already designed and built) would also be a non starter... so, Quo Vadis?

[David Morton]

Keith,
Nothing more at the moment. It's gone deep and silent (submarine term).
Keep an eye on Ebay though..................

[David Morton]

KERS may well be binned as of today.
(Or at least delayed until the city stop the mutual masterbation by paying themselves huge bonuses).

This is bad luck for BMW who seemed to be getting
on with mastering the technology of it even if
the pit crew were wearing long rubber gloves.
And....... better than half of the remaining teams may agree to the common engine deal.
The saving grace is that it's going to be a Cosworth.

And another thing - Prodrive are still in the frame on the Honda deal but I'm sure that JB will not be part of the deal. I think he may be driving with ES next year.
E.S.? .............Eddie Stobbart.

[Keith 'Baron' Hardy]

That's interesting - aren't the current owners of Cosworth two of the guys who together with Paul Gentilozzi made up the now defunct OWRC (Champ Car) series? Is there still Cosworth production in the UK?

[David Morton]

Cosworth was bought by Kevin Kalkhoven and Gerry Forsythe - owners of the Champ Car Series (which was the successor to CART).
Is the manufacturing base still here in the UK? I think so but I could be wrong.

[Paul Brameld]

Originally Posted by Keith1

That's interesting - aren't the current owners of Cosworth two of the guys who together with Paul Gentilozzi made up the now defunct OWRC (Champ Car) series? Is there still Cosworth production in the UK?

A huge range of factories in Northampton:

Cosworth

[Keith 'Baron' Hardy]

Thanks for the link Paul. I grew up with 'Cos and 'Worth' and it's great to see their heritage continuing, however it's all been fucked up by so many 'assimilations' that it's lost it's original identity - the forerunner of every F1 motor on the grid today (and before anyone says what about Ferrari - think Honda) came from the humble package funded (in part) by Ford to the tune of £40K for their name on the covers. Perhaps the most enduring legacy today is via Mercedes McLaren F1 motor - which actually has a much more direct lineage to the original.... Cosworth..

[Pete McCluskey.]

Max the whip master talks to the BBC.Automotive - home.

[David Morton]

JB may be driving a Citroen next year? If it happens what will the car be called ? 2CV++ ? It's a bit of a long shot though.
I noticed the Corporate Helicopter was in use at Prodive in Banbury yesterday but nothing further about Prodrive and Honda for the moment.

[Kym Haines]

Looks like some significant changes for next year to save money; but interesting from a spectator's point of view:
- no refuelling
- no tyre warmers

From grandprix.com:

DECEMBER 12, 2008
The new world of Formula 1

The FIA World Council met in Monaco today and voted through the following changes. These proposed changes have the unanimous agreement of the Formula 1 teams, who have played a major role in their development.

In 2009 engine life is to be doubled. Each driver will use a maximum of eight engines for the season plus four for testing (thus 20 per team). They will be limited to 18,000 rpm. There will be no internal re-tuning with adjustment to trumpets and injectors only. The three-race rule voted on November 5 will remain in force. The cost of engines to independent teams will be approximately 50% of 2008 prices. Unanimous agreement was reached on a list of proposed changes to the Renault engine for 2009; all other engines will remain unchanged. Comparative testing will not be necessary.

There will be no in-season testing except during race weekends. There will be no wind tunnel exceeding 60% scale and 50 metres/sec after January 1 2009. A formula to balance wind tunnel-based research against CFD research, if agreed between the teams, will be proposed to the FIA. There will be factory closures for six weeks per year, depending on local laws.

Manpower at races will be reduced by means of a number of measures, including sharing information on tyres and fuel to eliminate the need for "spotters".

Market research will be conducted to gauge the public reaction to a number of new ideas, including possible changes to qualifying and a proposal for the substitution of medals for points for the drivers. Proposals will be submitted to the FIA when the results of the market research are known. It is estimated that these changes will save the manufacturer teams approximately 30% of their budgets compared to 2008, while the savings for independent teams will be even greater.

For 2010 engines will be available to the independent teams for less than 5 million Euros per team per season. These will either come from an independent supplier or be supplied by the manufacturer teams backed by guarantees of continuity. If an independent supplier, the deal will be signed no later than December 20 2008. This same engine will continue to be used in 2011 and 2012 (thus no new engine for 2011). Subject to confirmation of practicability, the same transmission will be used by all teams.

A list of all elements of the chassis will be prepared and a decision taken in respect of each element as to whether or not it will remain a performance differentiator (competitive element). Some elements which remain performance differentiators will be homologated for the season. Some elements will remain performance differentiators, but use inexpensive materials. Elements which are not performance differentiators will be prescriptive and be obtained or manufactured in the most economical possible way.

At races there will be standardised radio and telemetry systems. Tyre warmers will be banned. No-one will be allowed to mechanically purge the tyres. Refuelling will be banned. The race distance may also be reduced depending on the results of market research.

There will be further restrictions on aerodynamic research, a ban on tyre force rigs and a full analysis will be made of factory facilities with a view to proposing further restrictions on facilities.

In the longer term FIA and FOTA will study the possibility of an entirely new power train for 2013 based on energy efficiency (obtaining more work from less energy consumed). Rules to be framed so as to ensure that research and development of such a power train would make a real contribution to energy-efficient road transport. An enhanced Kinetic Energy Recovery System (KERS) system is likely to be a very significant element of an energy-efficient power train in the future. In the short term, KERS is part of the 2009 regulations, but is not compulsory. For 2010 FOTA is considering proposals for a standard KERS system. The FIA awaits these proposals.

[Neal]

I guess we'll need to start calling F1 "Champ Car" racing. Lets throw in a few oval tracks...

[Keith 'Baron' Hardy]

Originally Posted by Neal

I guess we'll need to start calling F1 "Champ Car" racing. Lets throw in a few oval tracks...

Actually, when the IRL and Champ Car split, and the Champ Car Series ran almost exclusively on road courses, I thought it was damned exciting to watch. I have a feeling it was the IRL that got a bit snoozy mainly because of the ovals. They're back together now of course, but I cannot really bring myself to watch the "foot on the floor" oval brigade - it's a very American thing, and as Jim Clark (or was it Graham Hill?) put it after an Indy 500 win, "that was the most amount of money I've ever been paid for turning left"

[Pete McCluskey.]

Vettel fastest in Jerez. Champ of the future?

Unofficial Wednesday times from Jerez:
1. Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, 1:16.617
2. Sebastien Buemi, Red Bull, 1:16.998
3. Robert Kubica, BMW Sauber, 1:19.013
4. Christian Klien, BMW Sauber, 1:19.066
5. Kazuki Nakajima, Williams, 1:19.341