A widely held misconception.......

David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
Please be careful when emailing , blogging and writing on websites, not to slander or defame anyone or company. It has been a widely held misconception that these mediums are 'outside' the law - which they are plainly and simply not. This has been thrown up because some of our politicos are considering legal actions about accusations made about them
contained in emails and bloggs. Even if it is true, it seems.
It also seems that potted plants at £9.98 and two widescreen TV's at £1500, claimed on Member of Parliaments (MP) expenses are wholly and necessary part of being an MP and living in a single rented room. It is clearly not a scam. Definitely. Because they say so... (Orwellian?)
PS I've seen some of the unfortunate 'lesser' people in court here for stealing and eating a £2.98 piece of cheese because they were hungry. How can our legal system justify handing down penalties for such henious crimes when our politicians are ripping the arse out of the system and getting away with it ???

There remains another mystery (to me anyway) which is where something may have been written and then where it is read. i.e. if someone in the USA says something untoward about another person, for this example, in the UK, where is the wrongful deed comitted ? Any legal types care to comment ?

Dave M
 

Rick Muck- Mark IV

GT40s Sponsor
Supporter
Slander amd Libel are very difficult to prosecute in the USA. The UK is very different. For all of the friviolus lawsuits in the US (Hot coffee burns and lost pants at the dry cleaners) the UK makes it easy to sue for nasty things said. I know ACOC worries about posting, as Ron is stateside I don't hink he worries too much except in outright bully posts.
 

Ron Earp

Admin
Hi Dave,

Unfortunately, I've had to look into this a time or two since I "own" the forum. This reason is what caused me to incorporate GT40s.com. Certainly not for income because it doesn't generate any, but because I wanted protection against lawsuits to separate personal and "business", if we can go so far as to call GT40s.com a business.

I can only speak to this issue involving GT40s.com or me, as owner. Without specific details a lawsuit involving GT40s.com would be tried in the US. Here in the US it'd be very difficult to sue me over something that was written on a forum like this. However, in the UK your society is much more litigious over verbal/written "attacks" (the three times the forum has been threatened to be sued all were from the UK). I'm told a forum owned in the UK is considerably more vulnerable to legal action and that seems to jive with actions I've witnessed over the years with people threatening lawsuits from the UK.

Anyhow, I don't know what would happen if party A tried to sue party B over something written on party C's (GT40s.com) website. You agree that when you sign up on GT40s.com that you are responsible for everything you write on the forum along with some other stuff. If folks start suing one another over things said and GT40s.com (me) gets involved the site will be gone. It is enough work to keep it running and so on without have lawsuits flying around. Everyone be nice.

Ron

PS-Just read Rick's post and he has the same impression I do. In the many visits to the UK speaking with Malcolm, Paul, Glenn, etc. during racing and so on we'd discussed the issue and it seems it much easier to sue over these points in the UK. Here in the states if I want to write that John B is a such and such no good lying sack of dung etc. not much can be done, that is my opinion. I'm told this could be a big deal in England?
 

RichardH

AKA The Mad Hat Man
ere Ron - which member John B where yu talking about? and you are lucky he hasnt seen yet ;).
 

David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
Ron and all,
Sure the GT40s.web is fine - all I was saying that please don't write that the Home Secretary is a lying swine and should be booted unceremoniously up her stupid fat arse out of any public office in any emails, blogs, or websites as she may instigate proceedings in the courts here. There was a mistaken belief by quite a few people that these things were not included in/ above the law in this country. Construe that last sentence which ever way suits you best.
 
The general perception is that the US is lawsuit happy, but on this forum I've seen many more threats of legal action from members in the UK than from folks here in the US.

Edit - for that matter, this is the only forum I participate in where I've seen any threats of legal action.
 
Speaking from personal experience I think the problem in this country now is the rise of the no win no fee cowboy’s. The young lad who crashed into me, was driving his mum’s car, with no mot, in an area he was not familiar with.

A no fee no win “outfit” took the case on for him, luckily I won the case, having spent 14 months worrying about it gathering all the evidence myself and continuously chasing my appointed solicitors. I received £300, made up of £150 I had to pay as an excess on my insurance, £100 for suffering 2 days of headaches, £40 for being without a car for 2 days, and £10 interest.

The solicitors got £15,000 a big incentive, which is the amount the no win no fee guys would have got if they had won, they had also taken out an insurance premium to pay this cost if they lost.
 

David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
The Tax Payers Alliance ( in the UK) (cut and pasted from my old squadron website so some of the links may not perform). HOLD ON TO YOUR SEATS as some of it is a bit worrying.:veryangry:

Dave M


Subject: TaxPayers' Alliance Bulletin: Dispatches - the truth about MPs' expenses, Who cares about the NHS? and how to reform EU aid

TaxPayers' Alliance Bulletin - 17th April 2009

MPs' Expenses get the Dispatches treatment

The TPA is delighted to announce its collaboration with Heather Brooke on a Dispatches special this Sunday. Delving into the murky and scandalous world of MPs' expenses, this programme will examine a few shocking examples of MPs who have become adept at taking advantage of taxpayers' generosity and are playing the system to maximise personal enrichment. Other topics of discussion are MPs' subsidised meals and taxpayer-funded five star lifestyles. The programme is presented by leading investigative journalist Heather Brooke, who has been working with the TPA since its formation to help expose waste and profligate Government spending using the power of the Freedom of Information Act. Last year, Heather won a court battle to get MPs' expenses published in full. The Westminster Gravy Train will be shown at 7pm on Sunday the 19th April on Channel 4. Tune in and prepare to be dumbfounded.<WBR>..

EU Development Aid

Over the Easter weekend, the TPA launched the latest in our series of reports on aid and international development. The report Reforming European Development Assistance argues that greater transparency and scrutiny is needed in EU development aid spending. The EU commands one of the largest aid budgets in the world but the public have extremely limited information about how that money is spent and there is no way for those receiving aid to be held to account for what they do with it. At present, far too much British taxpayers' money finds its way into the hands of extremists and the corrupt. To read the full report, click here.

Matthew Elliott had an opinion piece in The Independent on Monday, exploring some of the findings of the paper and putting forward some solutions to this growing and urgent problem. Read his article here.

Also in the news today, as part of our ongoing campaign against Hate Education, Matthew Elliott is quoted on the front page of this week's Jewish Chronicle, criticising the use of taxpayers' money to fund a Hizbollah seminar at the School of African and Oriental Studies in London. To read the full article, please click here.
Who Cares? You should...

The figures in Amanda Steane's book Who Cares? are almost beyond belief: around 34,000 people die unnecessarily every year in today's NHS hospitals and another 25,000 are unnecessarily permanently disabled. These 59,000 victims of poor care, neglect and negligence in New Labour's 'reformed' NHS are our loved ones. Amanda Steane's husband Paul went into hospital for minor surgery. After repeated mistakes and neglect by inexperienced doctors and over-worked nurses in dirty wards, Paul emerged a helpless invalid. In constant pain and unable to walk, talk, see or breathe properly, Paul took his own life.

The NHS tried to avoid any responsibility for what was happening to Paul - letters were 'mislaid', promises were 'forgotten' and key medical records were 'lost'. But a nurse, outraged at how Paul and Amanda were being treated, sent Amanda copies of the 'lost' medical records. These indicated that the NHS was probably lying and the police started to investigate. In her own words and through photos of Paul's horrific decline from healthy man to helpless invalid, Amanda aims to warn us about what is happening in many hospitals in today's NHS. She does this, not to place blame, but to ensure that nobody else ever again has to suffer as Paul did.

Amanda has provided an important voice to all those around the country who have been mistreated and neglected by the NHS, and has kindly let us put her book on our website so that TPA supporters can download a free copy here.

Council Tax Protest report - how you can help

On Thursday this week, our activists and volunteers went to support Sussex Council Tax victim Terry Reilly who appeared in court for non-payment of council tax increases. Terry has made a stand by not paying council tax increases above the rate of inflation. We'd like to thank those who turned up for the protest, but our work isn't done yet. You can help by reading Terry's message and sending the blog to members of Mid Sussex Council to make them aware of the damage their council tax increases are doing to those on low and fixed incomes. You can read Terry's message and find out how to send it to Mid Sussex's councillors here.

Sutton Campaign Day

On Friday 24th April TPA supporters will be in Sutton's high street to campaign against high taxes. After an above inflation tax increase, we'll be out calling for lower council tax and an end to wasteful spending. Please come and join us to recruit more members to the cause. We'll be meeting outside Sutton Railway Station, Brighton Road, Sutton 11am on Friday 24th April. If you plan to attend or would like more information, please email our grassroots coordinator Tim Aker at tim.aker@taxpayersa<WBR>lliance.com.

Pension Case Studies

We're looking for case studies from our members who find themselves victims of the pension crisis. If you've seen your pension raided by the taxman, fall in value or face a shortfall then we'd like to hear from you. Please contact our grassroots coordinator, Tim Aker, at tim.aker@taxpayersa<WBR>lliance.com.

Best of the Blogs

Campaign: Derek Draper should refund the taxpayers' money used in his smear plans
Campaign: About time, too
Campaign: The transparency bug spreads to Bedford
Better Government: The credit crunch may damage your teeth
Better Government: Updates to the Town Hall Rich List
European Union: Son of Quango
European Union: The Legal Fig Leaf
Non-job of the week: Surrey County Council

www.taxpayersallian<WBR>ce.com/
 

Ron Earp

Admin
Edit - for that matter, this is the only forum I participate in where I've seen any threats of legal action.

Among the forums I frequent GT40s.com is, unfortunately, not unique. Cobra forums have had lawsuit activity, the gun forum I frequent has been threatened, both Ford forums I visit have had some issues over the years, and I remember the SCCA forum having something going on a couple of years back. Fortunately not much has come of most of these. I think FFCobra.com removed some banner ads in relation to the Shelby silliness but the forum still functions.

Probably if any forum is around long enough something will occur sooner or later. But the good thing is that in the US it seems little can be done against the forums. Now as far as lawsuits that spin off of things that happen between two parties that are simply members of a forum, I don't know much about that. It'd be interesting to know if there are many lawsuits that rise from forum activity but don't directly involve the forum.
 

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
Thanks for the good advice David.

I for one would never write anything like that your Home Secretary is a lying swine and should be booted unceremoniously up her stupid fat arse out of any public office, in any emails, blogs, or websites as she may instigate proceedings in the courts over there.
 

David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
There is a reshuffle of the 'cabinet' in the British government coming up soon though it is doubtful if she can manage another week in office. The newspapers here are trying to execute her almost everyday. In this case I hope they succeed.
 

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
There is a reshuffle of the 'cabinet' in the British government coming up soon though it is doubtful if she can manage another week in office. The newspapers here are trying to execute her almost everyday. In this case I hope they succeed.

I'll have to read the Times more often to keep up to date. Good result for R.B.
 

Peter Delaney

GT40s Supporter
If I write something nasty about another person on a piece of paper & mail copies out to other people, there could be a problem between myself & the target of my nastiness.

BUT, how on earth could the manufacturer of the paper / ink / photocopier, or the postal service be held liable in any way ??

The Forum/internet is analogous to this situation, but in the modern era. To argue that the Forum owner, it's Moderators, or the ISP should monitor & control all communications so as to avoid libel is totally fatuous.

Surely the argument is directly between the instigator of the nastiness & the target, and should not involve anyone purely associated with the carriage of the communication - scantily clad chap with an envelope in a forked stick, pony express rider, postman, ISP or Forum ?

For you guys interested in playing the market, have a look at "common sense futures" - I reckon that is one of the most scarce resources on this planet, & once somebody finds some, the market will go crazy !!

Kind Regards,

Peter D.
 
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