boat towing help needed

[Malcolm]

I have a 2000kg boat on a 550 kg trailer. I have just bought a new trailer and I have way too much nose weight at 250 kg. This needs sorting now!!!!! Searching the net I see that there are a couple of schools of thought from min 50kg nose weight to 7% of trailer plus load weight which, in my case, works out at about 180kg. This latter figure still seems high to me though.

I intend to cure this by moving the axles forward. But can anyone give me their opinion of what the nose weight should be?

Thanks in advance.

 

[frank beuker]

Malcom,
I did some searching
- what's the maximum weight you're car can have (normaly stands on the towing bar )
- What's the maximum weight the nose of the trailer can have (should be on the dissel a little plate with maximum total weight )
normaly a standard car can have a maximum nose weight of about 100/125 kg
so the smallest number is the weight you can have as a nose weight

hope this helpes
Frank

 

[Malcolm]

Thanks Frank. Have got it down to 120 kgs now by moving the axles as much as I can. That also happens to be the tow vehicles max limit so at least now I am in the realms of safety. I will now shift the boat back 6 inches to gain a few less kg at the front.

At least I got a nice day for doing this!

 

[Ron Earp]

Malcolm, you can use a load leveling hitch too. Simple, effective. I use one now as the new trailer has a tongue weight right at about 1600 lbs. Flattened the rear of my truck, even flattened Jeff's Dodge 2500 diesel. With the new hitch everything is nice and level, truck pulls the trailer fine. Here is some basic info if these are unfamilar to you:

How to Setup a Weight Distributing Hitch | eHow.com

Ron

 

[Ian Anderson]

Now put a bigger motor on the back and the weight distribution will improve!

Ian

 

[Phil]

Malcolm:
Do be careful how far forward you move the axles. A good rule of thumb is 60/40 or 60% front to 40% rear. If you go too far beyond this ratio you will have serious problems with instability and I have seen trailers that develop a side to side oscillation that is difficult to correct and gets worse with increased speed.
You also need some substantial tongue weight to maintain control...in your case I would say approx 350 lbs.
A trailer is basically unstable in the respect that there is a lot of weight behind the tow vehicle with a hinge point, similar to a dart or an arrow the heavy part tends to try and move to the front during travel. The same happens with a trailer, and the more unbalanced the setup is the quicker it will happen, especially when braking
Make sure your load is positioned to acheive the correct tongue weight, as most boats are heavy to the rear this may mean moving forward to acheive the correct balance and tongue weight.
Ron's advice is really inportant here, I would bet that he has good stability when towing, and he has corrected his ride level to maintain maximum control.

Just my 2c from experience.
Good Luck
Phil

 

[Malcolm]

I think the axles are still about 70/30% in position. They really were way too far back. I have also lengthened the tow bar on the trailer to reduce the loading that way. So hopefully well on the way to getting this sorted. I will have a look at the load leveller, that sounds interesting.

Thanks for the advice guys most helpful.

And as to engine size I already got a Mag 350 in there (300 bhp in a 23 ft boat) so that is big enough for me.

 

[petefias]

I predict with your latest setup you will get uncontrollable sway once you exceed the speed of 80km/h.

For a total trailer/boat weight of 2500kg you need at least 250kg tonge weight (10%) to eliminate sway. To place that 250kg evenly between the front and rear wheels of your tow vehicle you need a weight distribution hitch.

I currently pull a 24' trailer (approx. 8,000lb loaded) with 800lb tonge weight with a weight distribution hitch and it pulls rock steady even at high speeds.

 

[Malcolm]

Sorry, your prediction is completely wrong Rock steady at 100 km/h. One thing I have noticed that in the USA you guys use much bigger, heavier cars than us and your trailers likewise. Therefore you can use the heavy nose weights. I am not aware of a car sold in the UK that can legally pull an 8000lbs load. Also looking at the specification plates on the parts used in making the trailer they are not designed to work in the ranges you would like to load them to. From what you say it makes sense for you to use the distribution devices you mention.

My boat came with an american trailer. It was much better than the UK spec one I bought to replace it but the US trailer was illegal to be used in Europe for about 10 different reaons! Silly but true.

 

[David Sturch]

Malcolm,
You may need electric brakes on the trailer also. It's nice to get the tongue weight down. Part of the towing capacity of the vehicle is also being able to stop within a reasonable distance under full load. Most guys over here use SUV and Pickups to tow. I guess the big test will be when you go pull your boat out of the water.
Dave

 

[Malcolm]

Electric brakes are illegal here. So are the hydraulic brakes as I had on my US trailer previously mentioned. We have to use cable brakes onto drums which are operated by a piston/lever in the tow hitch. Given a free choice I think the hydraulic systems are the best. Any trailer with a gross weight over 750 kg has to have a braking system built in to it.

My Nissan Pathfinder is what you guys would call an SUV. It works a treat at towing up the slipway. As Ron would testify, you guys may not like what some people here use to tow with. Tiny cars indeed.

 

[David Sturch]

Malcolm,
I drive an Isuzu Rodeo and even with the mechanical brake system the same they use on U-Haul trailers over here you are pushing the GVW of the PathFinder. It would be the same as my vehicle about 1600 Kg max even with brakes and a bit higher with a Class III hitch not much maybe 200 Kg more. I wouldn't want to be behind you should you tow it up to Lock Ness to look for the Monster.
Dave

 

[Ron Earp]

Electric brakes are illegal here. So are the hydraulic brakes as I had on my US trailer previously mentioned. We have to use cable brakes onto drums which are operated by a piston/lever in the tow hitch. Given a free choice I think the hydraulic systems are the best. Any trailer with a gross weight over 750 kg has to have a braking system built in to it.
.

That is insane, E brakes being illegal. They work extremely well with a proper brake controller. Those damn push brakes operated by the trailer pushing on the tow vehicle suck. You want the trailer slowing down a tad bit before the tow vehicle which is clearly not possible with push brakes.

US folks over-tow something serious. Everyone over here thinks you need a diesel F250 to pull a piss-ant 20 ft boat to the lake twice a year. I tow fine with the Lightning, right at about 6500 lbs all up these days but I did have to get a load leveling hitch with the new trailer. Tongue weight is high.

US over-tows and UK under-tows from what I've witnessed.

 

[David Sturch]

Ron,
You've got that right. I rented a U-Haul when I was in your neck of the woods. It was a tandem 6x14 with mechanical brakes. It was fun driving through Virginia and West Virginia, all those mountains. Jerk,Jerk,Jerk on all those steep grades.
Dave

 

[Malcolm]

Well I don't know, David, but all my boat trailer gear is new so I don't feel a thing when I brake, the whole train slows as one without jerks or any drama at all. I do agree you guys like to over tow everything but that is playing on the safe side for sure. Maybe a rental U Haul rig is a bit tired? I can't work out how many tens of thousands of miles I have now towed but it is some high mileage. The Europe system does work. Maybe (being provocative here!) like the race cars designed over here, our stuff is more finely designed to prevent the need for so much weight.

 

[Keith]

:lurker:

 

[David Sturch]

Malcolm,
All I am saying is to look at your owners manual for your Pathfinder and it will tell you the maximum towing capacity. As for your trailer I don't see anything wrong with it. I could pull a 42ft offshore racer with my vehicle with the proper setup. If I was under manufacturers warranty and fried the tranny they would not fix it.
Dave