Healthcare

OK, let's talk about the Healthcare debacle. Granted healthcare is expensive in the US. But in countries with socialized healthcare such as Canada, England, Germany, Norway, and France to name a few, healthcare is a joke. Something like a broken leg will be fixed quickly. But let's say your regular doctor feels something strange in the consistentcy of your prostate while he has you in a compromising position. In a socialized plan the referal to a specialist takes an average of 17 weeks. OK, you live to see the specialist. He says you need a MRI or special imaging to be conclusive. Another 17 weeks. Prostate cancer is very fast moving and quite lethal in younger men! You could be dead by now! Treatment has to be approved, so you could go another 17 weeks. This is why the prostate cancer mortality rate in Norway is 400% higher than the US, Germany is 300%, France is 350%, England is 300%, and Canada is 300% higher than the US. Gosh I just can't wait for Obomber to push this one on us. Oh another little tidbit! All of the ILLEGAL ALIENS and all of the dead weights on wellfare will be covered! I wonder who's going to pay for that? Small business owners will be charged 8% of their total salaries if they don't have private healthcare. If you do have private health care, Obomber says you may keep it! The guy has a problem with the truth, or omission. If your healthcare plan changes in any way, new insurance carrier, ect. (on page 15 of the bill) you WILL be made to accept the government plan. If you are paying for your own medical expenses this will have to go on your income tax and you will pay a fine. If people sit still and don't get informed, and then call every congressman and senator they can dig up and voice their feeling about this plan, we are headed for some bad times. Did you hear Obomber say that when people get old and have health problems, they ought to consider Hospice as a viable alternative. So when you get old you should go find someplace to curl up and freakin DIE! I remember presidents since Truman, and only this one scares the hell out of me!
 
Our health care is by no means perfect but I would rather, by far, pay into a system like we have in Canada. We don't enter or leave a hospital with a broken leg or other with a bill attached to the I.V unit. As for specialized care, many Canadian provinces wait times are getting longer but to qualify all Canadian special care institutes a joke is off base. People from all over the world come to Canada for specialized care, especially for infant/child care to such prestige places like the Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto to name one of many.

Sometimes it's not the wait but where you can afford to go.

Chris
 
Because they can afford to and that is their choice. Our system isn't perfect but if you are a Canadian citizen you can get treatment ASAP and are covered which helps in diagnosing major illnesses before they become problematic.

For the most part, you can thank US insurance companies for blocking, denying and avoiding claims at every turn for much of the health care problems affecting those who need help the most.

My $0.02, someone else can chime in.


Chris
 

Neal

Lifetime Supporter
Insurance reform is not going to improve an already F-up care system. I've seen gross negligence while caring for my geriatric parents. Poor communication, a lack of automated medical records, poor decision making. Ironically their Medicare coverage has paid for some major health events over time. An let's broach the subject of medical research... Stem cell research has potentially the highest breakthrough probability in this decade yet we dance around the moral majority that likely haven't spent the time to understand the long term benefit. But that's another subject... I notice that my income bracket funds the majority of this initiative. Super!

Obummer and his cronies need to rethink this one...
 
Our healthcare problem is very complex. First of all, insurance for the doctors is outrageous because of punitive damages. The attorneys need to be cut back or limited for damages. Second, insurance is not a right. It is a luxury. If you want healthcare, pay for it yourself. IF we got back to a system of people paying their own way, maybe doctors won't be overworked and insurance companies won't be dictating how much a doctor earns. The problem is that the free market has been removed from this industry and has lead to its demise.

I have been self insured for 20 years and only lately have I got catastrophic insurance in case something really big happens. I don't buy car insurance so my insurance company will pay for my oil changes and install tires. Don't we use car insurance just in case something big happens? Hummmmm
 
Tom,
Your argument's weak. Our system is not perfect but I would not give it up for anything. We all pay for our insurance here usually done through employers. If I want extra coverage I pay. Nobody has ever lost their house because they got sick here. Health insurance companies are in buisiness to make money, the older you are the more the risk. I bet your federal gov has their heath care plan tell them you want the same plan as a Senator.
Dave
 
Guys,

My £0.02.

- I broke a leg in Italy, and the INHS almost cost me my left leg. I was privately insured by my North American employer at the time of the accident. The guys running the hospital were more interested in making money off my insurance rather than making sure I was healed. A good reason for litigation to keep incompetence in line.
- Here in the UK, we get universal coverage, a great thing when one is unemployed, but not as good as the U.S. system if one is employed.
- The UK system is not cheap (8,5% as an employee contribution and 12,5% - may not be latest statistics) to individuals and companies. The major employee benefit is private health care so one can get fixed when the NHS can't do the job. This also gets people back to work sooner, so it is really a benefit for the economy than the employee.
- I'll bet the NHS costs both employers and employees more money over the employee's career than a private system like the states, and the quality is not as good.
- I have heard numerous UK citizens say they would not trade the UK system for the U.S. system.
- I would like to see everyone in the states insured by purchasing groups, and employers making contributions to the employees health care costs, like they do in Germany. One buys insurance at 18, and keeps the program for his / her life. The Germans use traditionally a private system (I think there is a government sponsored back up system for those who can't get insurance in the private sector).

Perhaps others more knowledable than me can comment and correct my errors.

Dom
 
A couple of other comments about U.S. health care:
- health records are not computerized, and hence too much paperwork is involved
- doctors (to cover themselves from litigation) run too many tests to prove the obvious
- mal-practice insurance is hideously expensive
- law suite claims awarded by judges is ridiculously high
- consumers expect top notch treatment when they get sick - and they should get this

I think if limits could be put on:
- law suit claims
and paperwork and numbers of tests reduced, costs will drop, insurance costs will drop and everyone will benefit.
 
A couple of other comments about U.S. health care:
- health records are not computerized, and hence too much paperwork is involved
- doctors (to cover themselves from litigation) run too many tests to prove the obvious
- mal-practice insurance is hideously expensive
- law suite claims awarded by judges is ridiculously high
- consumers expect top notch treatment when they get sick - and they should get this

I think if limits could be put on:
- law suit claims
and paperwork and numbers of tests reduced, costs will drop, insurance costs will drop and everyone will benefit.

Just talking about the litigation cost. We have always tended to think of Doctors as Gods. Most people don't get second opinions.We never consider that some of the Doctors just squeaked by in college, probably the last 50%. I hear Doctors complaining about high insurance rates. Doctors should police their own ranks. Ever try to get a Doctor to say something about another Doctors botched up surgery? Never happen! There are a lot of Doctors that shouldn't be practicing. Practicing is a term that bothers me. If Doctors had a strong body to oversee and get rid of the also rans, insurance rates would be more tollerable. Some Doctors have multiple malpractice suits, they just move to another state. I don't sympathize with the Doctors. I don't think that the cost of their screwups should be passed along to us. In most other trades, the best don't reach the top, they are removed prior to that.
 
Al,

Interesting point you bring up. I always thought that to be a doctor, you had to be some kind of intellectual genius. But what you said proves that they are just human. Some good and some bad.

FYI, regarding the INHS (Italian National Health Service) and their fxxx up, it took a German doctor in Cologne Germany to straighten it out. In fairness, he was a miracle worker.
 
I haven't had the time that it takes to do the research that is required to comment intelligently on this subject even though I work in the healthcare field. So I turn to those who have the background in business and politics to find the answers, because that is where you find the answers. One of those people is a fellow buy the name of Herman Cain. Here is his background. Interesting read.

Herman Cain Bio on wsbradio.com

Herman is now one of the featured talk show host on WSB 750 AM in Atlanta.
He has done a lot of research and he has several columns on health care, the economy, taxes, energy and others. He not only shows the shortcomings of an opposing argument, but the possible solutions.

Herman's Links on wsbradio.com

Herman spells it out more articulately than I can and has put in the time and research to cut through all the hype. If you have the time, read these and then do your own research and decide for your self which way you think the wind is going to blow.

Unraveling the Lies about Health Care:
Unraveling the Lies about Health Care on wsbradio.com
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<!-- text below --> Obamacare: Medicare’s Ugly Twin Sister:

News and Articles by and about Herman Cain - the Hermanator Experience

Seven Ways to Make Health Care in America Better:

News and Articles by and about Herman Cain - the Hermanator Experience

Bill
 
Bill,

This guy makes sense. The Demos, bless their hearts, want to impose the UK style system in the states. The Italians adopted the NHS model years ago, and its adaptation is a disaster.

I hope enough Americans realize that the system needs improving, corruption removed, processes simplified, less litigation, smaller payouts to litigants who win. As the drug companies support their R and D, and subsidize their drug sales to poorer nations through U.S. sales, I would look for a smarter way to reduce drug costs (but I don't have an idea there yet).
 
interesting...my mom passed out in Pisa during vacation and we were wisked to ER via ambulance. she was provided all kinds of tests including X-rays, cat scan and other help during the 5 hours we were there. No waiting. No paperwork. Very courteous and helpful staff. Great experience.
 
there seems to be some misunderstanding about this whole medical records issue and most of it is misinformation including Obama's constant blathering about how much can be saved by computor records. I have that system and it has saved nothing,it is complicated ,expensive and cumbersome and to think it will somehow save the US heathcare system is silly. The only way to save real money is to limit care, period, just as is done in the UK ect.. We have the attitude of "whatever it costs to save grandma,is ok" and since medicare is paying, why should they care. No politician wants to out and out say this but it is the truth and we will face up to it sooner or later. The part about this plan of Obamas that gets me is the rush he is putting on and the blatant lying about how much it will cost. We all know the government cannot save money on healthcare and it will become the largest boondoggle in history. I do not think the Canadian system or the UK system is bad, but this is America and our expectations are way too high and attornies are not about to let that change.
 
First, as others have said, no where in the Constitution or Bill Of Rights is there a section that states "the right to health care insurance". If you want it, BUY IT.

My company has a high deductable plan. It works for all of our employees from age 35 to 75. It motivates us to not use health car willy nilly, but if something major happens, they will cover it all once the deductable is paid.

No free Viagra, no yearly body scans, just what insurance should be, a safety net in case something MAJOR happens.

In regards to Obama care, show me ONE government program that is well managed and within budget?
 
I listened to a segment of what Obama said last night and I don't know how the people surrounding him could allow him to say something so stupid. He said that he has a GREAT health plan and congress has GREAT health plan and he was going to get us a GOOD health plan. What are we, chopped liver, why not a GREAT health plan for us? Why not the same as his plan and the congress plan? "Let them eat cake"
 
Obama had been using a figure of 46 million uninsured, last night he found another million someplace, he said 47 million uninsured. He has been asked question about the healthcare bill that he can't answer, he says he hasn't read the whole bill. How can he be trying to cram this down our throats without knowing the complete content of the bill. Maybe we are that stupid!

A quote from Investors Business Daily
The Phantom Uninsured
Posted 06/16/2009 06:30 PM ET


Health Care: The administration uses the "46 million uninsured" as a reason to nationalize health care. But the Census Bureau says about a fifth of those aren't U.S. citizens. In fact, a goodly number are illegal aliens.

At a town hall meeting in Green Bay, Wis., last week, President Obama spoke of the need to cover the "46 million people who don't have health insurance." At another point he simply referred to the "46 million uninsured." At neither point did he refer to them as "Americans."

That was wise, because not all them are, the Census Bureau says.

According to "Income, Poverty, and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States," a Census Bureau report published last August, of the 45.6 million persons in the U.S. that did not have health insurance at some point in 2007, 9.7 million, or about 21%, were not U.S. citizens.

The Census Bureau does not ask if anyone is here legally or illegally, so we can't tell how many are actually illegal aliens. We do know that throughout the Southwest and elsewhere, emergency rooms have been overburdened by a continuous flood of illegal aliens.

Also among the uninsured are 17 million Americans who live in households where the annual income exceeds $50,000; 7 million of those without coverage have incomes of $75,000 a year or more.

The notion that the uninsured are without health care is bogus, as well. They consumed an estimated $116 billion worth of health care in 2008, according to the advocacy group Families USA. Many of the uninsured are young and healthy (40% are between ages 18 and 34) and at this point in their lives, particularly in this economy, choose to put their dollars elsewhere.

Subtract noncitizens and those who can afford their own insurance but choose not to purchase it, and the number of uninsured falls dramatically. "Many Americans are uninsured by choice," wrote Dr. David Gratzer in his book "The Cure: How Capitalism Can Save American Health Care."

Gratzer cited a study of the "non-poor uninsured" from the California HealthCare Foundation.

"Why the lack of insurance (among people who own homes and computers)?" Gratzer asks. "One clue is that 60% reported being in excellent health or very good health."

The uninsured are not always the same people, and many are without coverage only for a relatively short time. Devon Herrick, senior fellow with the National Center for Policy Analysis, notes that "Being uninsured is a transitory state, since most uninsured Americans are only without coverage for a short time."
 
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