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Old 15th November 2010, 10:57 PM   #1
Cliffbeer2
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What is it with California??

Apparently, the explosion of new/legal sources of marijuana in Kalifornia is affecting the exercise of common sense: Court OKs in-state tuition for illegal immigrants - U.S. news - Life - msnbc.com

So let me get this straight, a) my state tax dollars (I own a house in San Diego) are now going to fund the education of illegal aliens, b) not only at my financial expense, but also at the expense of the reduction of admission of legal citizens (who now cannot be admitted due to class size limitations). Am I reading this correctly?

1. Budgetary Effect. Perhaps the California Legislature should have thought a little more carefully about this back in 2001 when it passed the law approving in-state tuition rates for illegal aliens. I guess nobody cared about State budget shortfalls at the time. For clarity, the issue isn't that other legal in-staters would take those seats anyway so it's a net zero effect on revenues, it's that if those illegal in-staters were excluded then that's just more seats for out-of-states who pay the higher tuition rates. Obviously, given more recent events, budgeting and financial planning isn't a strong suit of the Legislature.

2. Immigration Policy. And, shouldn't there be clear and obvious incentives to becoming a citizen? After all, if you're a citizen then there's a much higher chance that the individual will be on the radar of the IRS and therefore have an opportunity to join in the privilege of paying some TAXES in order to fund the educational desires of other citizens.

I just don't get it.

Last edited by Cliffbeer2; 15th November 2010 at 11:04 PM.
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Old 15th November 2010, 11:15 PM   #2
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Re: What is it with California??

Can't for the life of me figure out how California got a deficit of $633 billion. Definitely need some more social programs. It's like a little US government!
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Old 16th November 2010, 11:28 AM   #3
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Re: What is it with California??

Al, I do not believe you!

You continually post untrue data.

Did you get your info about Californias tax deficit from Fox?

You are going to have to show us were you got the data showing Californias tax deficit to be $633 billion!
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Old 16th November 2010, 11:47 AM   #4
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Re: What is it with California??

Looks like closer to $20-billion for 2010-2011:

2010-11 Budget Proposal: Solving California’s $20 Billion Deficit - Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger

Nonetheless, providing free education to illegal aliens can't help the budget deficits.
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Old 16th November 2010, 12:08 PM   #5
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Re: What is it with California??

Quote:
Nonetheless, providing free education to illegal aliens can't help the budget deficits.
Posted by Doc

Doc,

University education in California is not free. California citizens do pay less than citizens from other states.

The court ruled that "anyone" who has attended California High Schools for at least 3 years are intitled to pay the California rate for higher education.

The feeling being that any family that has had childeren attending CA high schools for three years have paid CA sales tax for those years.

Then if they meet the education standards, they are entitled to attend the CA University System at the CA rate.

NOT FREE!!!

Seems fair to me.
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Old 16th November 2010, 12:09 PM   #6
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Re: What is it with California??

My understanding is California has a government that mimicks Washington. For example they set the global auto standards. Maybe we should dismantle Washington and use California as our national government !!
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Old 16th November 2010, 12:27 PM   #7
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Re: What is it with California??

Jim,

Certainly I mis-spoke and used the term "free". No such thing as "free" college tuition (wishfull thinking in view of my academic debts accrued over the years)! More appropriately: "State Subsidized" for residents.
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Old 16th November 2010, 12:43 PM   #8
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Re: What is it with California??

Doc,

Thanks, I understand.
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Old 16th November 2010, 01:08 PM   #9
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Re: What is it with California??

The students in question must also fill out an affidavit that states that they are either in the process of legalizing their residency, or will begin the process of legalizing their residency as soon as possible. This affidavit is signed under penalty of law, so technically, if someone were to fraudulently fill out the form, they could be incarcerated, and potentially have to pay restitution (i.e. they could have to pay the state the equivalent non-resident tuition fees).

California is one of eleven states with similar bills - Illinois, Kansas, Nebraska, New Mexico, New York, Oklahoma, Texas, Utah, Washington and Wisconsin are the others. And, yes, they all have the same rules regarding non legal students.

So, Cliff - you're getting hit twice

And Doc is getting hit as well.

By the way, here is a nice article explaining things:

http://yubanet.com/california/MALDEF...ing-AB-540.php

Of note - it meets Federal standards and complies with federal Law, and is geared towards students who have proven ties to the State of California. Unlike the organization that filed the lawsuit on behalf of students who had MINIMAL to NO TIES AT ALL to the State of California.

Ian
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Old 16th November 2010, 02:41 PM   #10
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Re: What is it with California??

California total debt ~72 billion and counting.... Maybe not 633 billion, but they sure as hell are doing something wrong. I don't understand how it's not clear to people that utopia is not attainable without a lot more taxes. Seems like an oxymoron to me.

Moody's warning on California debt stuns state | Reuters
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Old 16th November 2010, 03:03 PM   #11
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Re: What is it with California??

Am I the only one who was surprised that Kalifornia voters turned down the proposal to legalize pot for personal use?

The sales taxes from that could be used to provide a free education for every undocumented alien in Kalifornia....of course, citizens would be expected to pay their way at "resident" rates, per the rules mentioned above.

So, I reiterate Cliff's Q: What the HELL is it with California?

Cheers from Doug!!
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Old 16th November 2010, 03:23 PM   #12
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Re: What is it with California??

BigB,

I'm not sure that California's debt issues come from trying to create a "utopia".

It was like many states, the country in general and many good citizens, when thing are going great and there is lots of income, spending goes up, but not neccesaraly savings.

When the economy tanked, the spending remained close to what it was, hence the debt. But you already knew that didn't you.

The Utopia comment was obviously aimed at our Republican goveror, right?
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Old 16th November 2010, 03:31 PM   #13
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Re: What is it with California??

Doug,

My friend, it's good to hear from you, it's been a while!

I was very much for the passage of the legalize pot proposition.

From what I can tell, the reason for it's failure was that large parts of rural CA make big$ off of pot sales (it is the #1 cash crop). As this was an off year election, the general turnout was fairly low while the folks with a stake in the pot economy turned out in force.

Even then is was close. I and most Californian's feel that the next election cycle with a presidential race and higher turnout will see it pass.
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Old 16th November 2010, 04:13 PM   #14
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Re: What is it with California??

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California is one of eleven states with similar bills - Illinois, Kansas, Nebraska, New Mexico, New York, Oklahoma, Texas, Utah, Washington and Wisconsin are the others. And, yes, they all have the same rules regarding non legal students
Posted by IanK

So Doug my friend, what the hell is it with Texas?
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Old 16th November 2010, 04:16 PM   #15
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Re: What is it with California??

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigB98 View Post
California total debt ~72 billion and counting.... Maybe not 633 billion, but they sure as hell are doing something wrong. I don't understand how it's not clear to people that utopia is not attainable without a lot more taxes. Seems like an oxymoron to me.

Moody's warning on California debt stuns state | Reuters
I printed an error,

California's FY2011 $86.6 billion state budget was passed on Oct. 8, 2010, 100 days late, the latest its ever been[1] It was the 23rd time in 24 years that the legislature has missed the budget deadline.[2] The state faced an estimated $19.1 billion deficit, after trimming billions of dollars from state spending last year and temporarily raising some taxes.[3][4] Financial expert, Meridith Whitney, has ranked California as being in the worst financial condition.[5]

California will receive approximately $3.1 billion from H.R. 1586, a $26 billion plan to give states money for Medicaid and education that the President signed into law on August 10, 2010.[6]

California has a total state debt of $290,855,041,516 when calculated by adding the total of outstanding debt, pension and OPEB UAALís, unemployment trust funds and the 2010 budget gap.
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Old 16th November 2010, 04:21 PM   #16
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Re: What is it with California??

Thank you Al!

Yes, cutting programs is very tough and seem to take some time.
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Old 16th November 2010, 04:24 PM   #17
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Re: What is it with California??

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California has a total state debt of $290,855,041,516 when calculated by adding the total of outstanding debt, pension and OPEB UAAL’s, unemployment trust funds and the 2010 budget gap.
Posted by Al

Due to your rather poor history with facts, you are going to have to provide proof.

Were did you get these numbers?
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Old 16th November 2010, 05:07 PM   #18
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Re: What is it with California??

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Originally Posted by Jim Craik View Post
BigB,

I'm not sure that California's debt issues come from trying to create a "utopia".

It was like many states, the country in general and many good citizens, when thing are going great and there is lots of income, spending goes up, but not neccesaraly savings.

When the economy tanked, the spending remained close to what it was, hence the debt. But you already knew that didn't you.

The Utopia comment was obviously aimed at our Republican goveror, right?
I guess if it were the first time that the economy had ever dropped that it would be a surprise that too much spending can cause problem...but it appears that in 2002 the economy was also blamed for the problems. FOXNews.com - California Deficit Skyrockets - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum << I did a Bing.com search and came across this, so don't anyone try to discredit me personally for reading a Fox article...Seems we have the historical evidence of problems with economic downturns, so we should be smart enough to try and fix the problems by now.

Regarding the utopia....I would say that there's some pretty liberal states in the US and California is probably the most. Could there be a connection between liberal policy/handouts and deficits? << I'm only asking a question here. By the way, regardless of the Terminator's party, California has had problems long before him, and history doesn't make continuing it right either. In other words, it seems nobody has been doing what is necessary to manage appropriately.
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Old 16th November 2010, 05:23 PM   #19
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Re: What is it with California??

Quote:
Regarding the utopia....I would say that there's some pretty liberal states in the US and California is probably the most. Could there be a connection between liberal policy/handouts and deficits? << I'm only asking a question here.
Posted by BigB

Yes there is a very good chance that it had an effect.

Just as it undoubtably had an effect on California being far and away the highest GSP
(gross state product)
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Old 16th November 2010, 05:45 PM   #20
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Re: What is it with California??

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Originally Posted by Jim Craik View Post
Posted by BigB

Yes there is a very good chance that it had an effect.

Just as it undoubtably had an effect on California being far and away the highest GSP
(gross state product)
That's a good point. Is there a study somewhere that would break it down to GSP by number of people? California is a huge state with lots of people compared to most - if their GSP efficiency is better than others, I'll buy in as the data proves out. Should also include illegals in the equation. If it proves out it's good on the one hand, but it seems like an even bigger waste on the other to squander such success.
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