"Vive La France"
- Thread starter mikegaan
- Start date
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
Mike,
The next 48 hours will be so much fun with loads of silly rhetoric coming out of Tripoli.
As much as I hated Sigopiginella, it must be alive right now with so much happening. I'm a bit surprised Malta has not offered to help as a Forward Operating base - after all they are supposed to be in the European Union. Souda Bay is another base that might be more helpful (but the post flight diner was crap). Nice to see the Danes in action whatever munitions they've loaded.
I can't see many "nay sayers " over here. The French can be brilliant - when they want.
The next 48 hours will be so much fun with loads of silly rhetoric coming out of Tripoli.
As much as I hated Sigopiginella, it must be alive right now with so much happening. I'm a bit surprised Malta has not offered to help as a Forward Operating base - after all they are supposed to be in the European Union. Souda Bay is another base that might be more helpful (but the post flight diner was crap). Nice to see the Danes in action whatever munitions they've loaded.
I can't see many "nay sayers " over here. The French can be brilliant - when they want.
The Government of France can kiss my ass....
Had they worked with us in 1986 we could have gotten the job done a long time ago...
Operation El Dorado Canyon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Watch - as soon as the Libyan military starts shooting back and a nail get's chipped - the US, Britain and all the other allies will be left holding the bag while the French take a rear position - if not retreat altogether...
France - Beautiful country - wonderful people - but their government sucks...
Had they worked with us in 1986 we could have gotten the job done a long time ago...
Operation El Dorado Canyon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Watch - as soon as the Libyan military starts shooting back and a nail get's chipped - the US, Britain and all the other allies will be left holding the bag while the French take a rear position - if not retreat altogether...
France - Beautiful country - wonderful people - but their government sucks...
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
Randy,
Your comments are valid for that time when France was under the Mitterand regime.
Sarkozy may have gone some way to recovering the tarnished image of the French but the jury is still out. Has Gadaffi got info and funds in the Sarkozy regime which Sarkozy would like to erase? Sarkozy is no friend of socialism and communism (he is from an ex Hungarian family who fled from the Red Army when they occupied Hungary) so things have changed though as I said earlier, the jury is still out.
Dave
Your comments are valid for that time when France was under the Mitterand regime.
Sarkozy may have gone some way to recovering the tarnished image of the French but the jury is still out. Has Gadaffi got info and funds in the Sarkozy regime which Sarkozy would like to erase? Sarkozy is no friend of socialism and communism (he is from an ex Hungarian family who fled from the Red Army when they occupied Hungary) so things have changed though as I said earlier, the jury is still out.
Dave
Randy, I'm with you on that.
The french prefer to fight with a bottle of wine, some bagguette and a lot of talk. Love the country, the people, and the food...an amazing place and one of my favorite countries to visit...and I speak the language, just wouldn't want to have to rely on the french military to do anything more than smoke a whole lot of cigarettes....
meanwhile we are now just waiting terrorist attacks here.
Garry, why did you put Football in quotes? Don't forget, you are the Johnny Come Lately where this is concernedAnd play "football" on the lawns of Paris' museums.
Garry
I knew we are populars, but that much....!
For what it's worth, here are my 2 (euros) cents:
Onu resolution arrives at least 10 days too late.
I'm not fan of Sarkozy, but for one time, I agree his position. But why did he do that? Probably several reasons, in which you can choose from France has been almost absent concerning Tunisia and Egypt's revolutions, and so needs to prove that we still exist on the international stage. Another political reason is probably that as the next elections are in 2012, he needs to show something good to us (french) electors before...
Anyway, and despite all those "bad reasons", it's a good thing to help them.
What I don't understand is that it seems that some countries, including the us, show themselves really really cold concerning the goal to reach with this operation.
Don't really know, but wouldn't it be easy to drop some well placed bombs and eliminate this fool?
Olivier.
For what it's worth, here are my 2 (euros) cents:
Onu resolution arrives at least 10 days too late.
I'm not fan of Sarkozy, but for one time, I agree his position. But why did he do that? Probably several reasons, in which you can choose from France has been almost absent concerning Tunisia and Egypt's revolutions, and so needs to prove that we still exist on the international stage. Another political reason is probably that as the next elections are in 2012, he needs to show something good to us (french) electors before...
Anyway, and despite all those "bad reasons", it's a good thing to help them.
What I don't understand is that it seems that some countries, including the us, show themselves really really cold concerning the goal to reach with this operation.
Don't really know, but wouldn't it be easy to drop some well placed bombs and eliminate this fool?
Olivier.
But WHO are we helping?
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
The Bush family, The UK Royal Family, and the Saudi Royal Family - otherwise known as 'The Firm'. Thats who...
Another simplier way would be to send a couple of brilliant traders in some country which has banks, houses to sell and so on...
Not sure I got you when you talk about "the firm". Do you really think that Lybia war is another oil war?
Olivier.
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
Olivier, Oil? Of course it is and I certainly believe that. Why have we ignored other conflicts such as Zimbabwe? Too much effort with no rewards - except to the 'Rhodesians' in terms of outpouring of foreign aid. While Mugabe is in power we have to pay nothing, denada, zilch.
The firm - those with a major vested interest in seeing Libya return to max oil output (2% total world output).
Read Ungers 2004 book:
House of Bush, House of Saud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The firm - those with a major vested interest in seeing Libya return to max oil output (2% total world output).
Read Ungers 2004 book:
House of Bush, House of Saud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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For anyone who thinks this war is NOT about oil...think again!
Why is the "West" not stepping up to help the protesters in Bahrain, Yemen, Egypt, Tunisia, or the other middle eastern states? Simple their governments are either stable enough keep relative control of the situation (Bahrain, now with Saudi troops), or they don't produce oil (Egypt, Tunisia).
Why did France, a country that has long since left the imperialist foreign invasion game, now taking charge on 'assisting' the rebels of Libya? Its simple, Libya produces oil for the European market...and France saw that its potential supplier could become jeopardized due to imminent civil war. The rebels, seen as thoroughly determined, yet under-trained and under-funded, did have a chance of at least splitting Libya. So France (and the US, UK, and some other members of the EU) saw this opportunity to help the rebels, to be welcomed as liberators, thus have significant influence on the "new Libyan" government's oil policy.
This is nothing more than Iraq all over again, just with different countries. Real revolutions must come from the people. Real revolutions have the potential to be very very bloody. We must remember that. The Western nations are not the police of the world, and if citizens of foreign nations are persecuted unjustly it would be enough to grant them amnesty, and welcome them to live in our countries while it is too dangerous for them to return home.
I for one cannot believe that my country (the USA) is not involved in yet another war, for which we cannot pay, or even win. We cannot win because we don't know what to do. We need to stop these "shoot now, ask later" tactics and respect the sovereignty of other nations.
Why is the "West" not stepping up to help the protesters in Bahrain, Yemen, Egypt, Tunisia, or the other middle eastern states? Simple their governments are either stable enough keep relative control of the situation (Bahrain, now with Saudi troops), or they don't produce oil (Egypt, Tunisia).
Why did France, a country that has long since left the imperialist foreign invasion game, now taking charge on 'assisting' the rebels of Libya? Its simple, Libya produces oil for the European market...and France saw that its potential supplier could become jeopardized due to imminent civil war. The rebels, seen as thoroughly determined, yet under-trained and under-funded, did have a chance of at least splitting Libya. So France (and the US, UK, and some other members of the EU) saw this opportunity to help the rebels, to be welcomed as liberators, thus have significant influence on the "new Libyan" government's oil policy.
This is nothing more than Iraq all over again, just with different countries. Real revolutions must come from the people. Real revolutions have the potential to be very very bloody. We must remember that. The Western nations are not the police of the world, and if citizens of foreign nations are persecuted unjustly it would be enough to grant them amnesty, and welcome them to live in our countries while it is too dangerous for them to return home.
I for one cannot believe that my country (the USA) is not involved in yet another war, for which we cannot pay, or even win. We cannot win because we don't know what to do. We need to stop these "shoot now, ask later" tactics and respect the sovereignty of other nations.
Guys, you are absolutely right...
East Timor - nothing
Zimbabwe - nothing
North Korea - nothing
Darfur - nothing
Tunisia - nothing
Egypt - nothing
Burma (Myanmar) - nothing
China (wonderful human rights record) - nothing
Somalia - (virtually) nothing
in fact, any number of African conflicts - nothing...
The list goes on and on. And yet...
Saudi Arabia -FUCK YEAH!
Kuwait - FUCK YEAH!
Libya - FUCK YEAH!
IRAQ - FUCK YEAH!
you'd have to be a muppet to not spot the difference....
East Timor - nothing
Zimbabwe - nothing
North Korea - nothing
Darfur - nothing
Tunisia - nothing
Egypt - nothing
Burma (Myanmar) - nothing
China (wonderful human rights record) - nothing
Somalia - (virtually) nothing
in fact, any number of African conflicts - nothing...
The list goes on and on. And yet...
Saudi Arabia -FUCK YEAH!
Kuwait - FUCK YEAH!
Libya - FUCK YEAH!
IRAQ - FUCK YEAH!
you'd have to be a muppet to not spot the difference....
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Well, it probably could be discussed till the end of time...
For sure, there is a lot of oil in libya. For sure, we (french, and western countries) would have a lot to do regarding Timor, burma, China...
Even here in France, we have heard about Bush family relations with saudis etc, etc...
I'm not totaly agree about the only persepective of "oil war". If it was totaly true, we would have participated to Iraq 2, what we didn't.
Maybe more thoughts about the whole area, with Israel, iran and so on around.
Who cant tell what will happen in the near future in those countries?
For sure, there is a lot of oil in libya. For sure, we (french, and western countries) would have a lot to do regarding Timor, burma, China...
Even here in France, we have heard about Bush family relations with saudis etc, etc...
I'm not totaly agree about the only persepective of "oil war". If it was totaly true, we would have participated to Iraq 2, what we didn't.
Maybe more thoughts about the whole area, with Israel, iran and so on around.
Who cant tell what will happen in the near future in those countries?
You guys are right - and some of us were saying the same thing back in 2003 but looked upon as stupid conspiracy nuts. Of course it's about oil. BUT, it does have other reasons as well. And hell yes there is a difference between Iraq and Libya. Hussein, although a murderous tyrant that oversaw much brutality in his regime, was 1) not actively slaughtering his people in the manner that Gaddafi is and 2) was not the target that Bush said we would go after when he stood on the rubble of the twin towers with the bullhorn. Gaddafi was bombing and killing his people real time, right before the world's eyes. Yes, other countries have done and are doing the same; I am not saying it's right to help Libyans but not others, I'm only comparing the events leading up to this to the events leading up to the Iraq war. Not to mention the fact that it is still to be seen whether or not we put any troops on the ground. If we fly in, push back Gaddafi's forces and get out, then we ARE leaving the people to rise up on their own, but they wouldn't have been able to without a little help. Let's see how it plays out.
Remember, we started all this back in 2003 when we went into Iraq with the clear goal of rearranging its government.
Remember, we started all this back in 2003 when we went into Iraq with the clear goal of rearranging its government.