A bit rich .....

[David Morton]

The Archbishop of Canterbury has said the rich and powerful should have to help the poor and needy by law.

This is a bit rich from someone who doesn't know the meaning of, and has never done a days real work in his life , lives in free accomodation, gets tax deductable clothes for 'work', ponces about in a big hat and with a big stick, and banks over a thousand pound each week.

 

[domtoni]

Dave, both you and he are right. We who are reasonably well off have an obligation to look after our less fortunate brothers and sisters (but in the UK with our social system that is left to the state to provide). In the US, its a different matter (and I will get some comments back on this one !!).

If the Archbishop wanted to step up to the plate, he could take a voluntary cut in pay and benefits to be in greater solidarity with the poor.

 

[Garry]

I am sure that he is a fine and well meaning fellow, but he is no Mother Teresa.
Garry

 

[David Morton]

Dom,
I'm sure you will get comments - probably from everywhere on the forum
but at the end of the day, I cannot understand how these aristoclergy sleep at night. It really is a job for people who like dressing up and poncing about spouting utter crap.
Dave

ps - before you google aristoclergy - I made it up.
pps - The salaries are paid from and by the government.
ppps - We pay the government to pay the clergy.
He gets £70k plus expenses and lives in Lambeth Palace for free. Its a job for life.

 

[Pat Buckley]

Thank god there is only one of him.

 

[Mike]

Dom, with all due respect, he is NOT right! Yes, we do have an obligation to care for the poor, but it is a "charitable" obligation. When you introduce the "by law" proviso you now introduce a new level of bureaucracy and waste as well as the politicians who will buy votes, return 'campaign' favors etc. and happily screw you in the name of charity. Sorry, I can't buy the 'law' part.

 

[Jack]

Neither can I! +1 Mike.

 

[domtoni]

Mike, I agree with you, and that is why I am against too much "by law" charitable support. I prefer the Salesian "St. John Bosco" style of Christianity, ie if you want to feed the hungry, you teach him/her to fish and not get their daily fish.

Yet in society, we have a number of people who are unable to help themselves. Probably not more than the 4% who are permanently unemployed are in need of government help for their daily fish.

You all know what side of the fence I am on when it comes to politics.

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

As I drive through town each day I see thousands of able bodied people of working age walking, driving, and playing. All of these people are either shift workers, unemployed, or mooching off the government. It is the last group I have a problem with. If they are trying to find work and need assistance, fine. If they are mooching because they can, something needs to be done.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Hypocrisy is alive and well with not only the Archbishop but most clergy I have come in contact with. They Pontificate about being charitable but live in comfort
and expect the poor to contribute when they pass the plate among their flock.
About the only people who seem to be non hypocritical are the Salvo's and the Buddhists.
Anyway, stuff the poor people! Tell em to go get a job.

 

[Charlie Farley]

Just taken a second look at his photo and noticed his upturned eyebrows (horns?)
Now, if you put a trident in his hand, he could easily pass as the Devil !!

 

[Graham]

It's a toughie. I'm sure we all do charitable acts of one form or another.

I can't believe that I am the first to mention that the well off already help to pay for the poor throught the taxation system.

I still try to do a decent amount for charity, but the taxes I pay are heavily slanted to this effect any way (or at least the money I pay SHOULD go towards these people to a certain degree....).

What I don't need is some unelected ( IMO ) official trying to tell me what I should do when , as David says, the man wouldn't know a job of work if it came up and punched him in the face.

Arrogant twat! :thumbsdown:

 

[Mike Pass]

Also not a fan of aristoclergy or any other kind of religion peddlers. I used to go hitchhiking to go rock climbing when I was at school. I got lifts from every kind of people - except priests, parsons, vicars or all the other variety of nonreaders of the parable of the good samaritan.
Cheers
Mike

 

[Nick]

Hypocrisy is alive and well with not only the Archbishop but most clergy I have come in contact with. They Pontificate about being charitable but live in comfort
and expect the poor to contribute when they pass the plate among their flock.
About the only people who seem to be non hypocritical are the Salvo's and the Buddhists.
Anyway, stuff the poor people! Tell em to go get a job.

What I don't need is some unelected ( IMO ) official trying to tell me what I should do when , as David says, the man wouldn't know a job of work if it came up and punched him in the face.

Arrogant twat! :thumbsdown:

Well as I resemble both those remarks i.e. I live in comfort, would not know a job of work if it hit me in the face but constantly pontificate about being charitable while actually giving very little to charity myself,I believe it gives me some incite into what Rowan Williams means.

I actually feel sorry for him as he is on a hiding to nothing with this one, but as (if you are a believer) the church was founded on a flawed man Simon Peter who was hypocritical enough to deny the existence of Jesus three times then God can do amazing things with flawed hypocritical men.

However, would it make any difference if he was not flawed or hypocritical we had an angel advising us for decades and yet we chose to and still choose to ignore her.

“Many world leaders- including heads of state and not a few Catholic bishops- quailed at her approach. They knew that she would not flatter them and that she might ask embarrassing questions. Her requests for their help with her charitable projects were invariably polite and respectful, but they were demanding. Give until it hurts, she would cheerfully suggest. "

When a poor person dies of hunger, it has not happened because God did not take care of him or her. It has happened because neither you nor I wanted to give that person what he or she needed. “

-- By Philip Lawler: Mother Teresa remembered for charity

Dom,
I'm sure you will get comments - probably from everywhere on the forum
but at the end of the day, I cannot understand how these aristoclergy sleep at night. It really is a job for people who like dressing up and poncing about spouting utter crap.
Dave

ps - before you google aristoclergy - I made it up.
pps - The salaries are paid from and by the government.
ppps - We pay the government to pay the clergy.
He gets £70k plus expenses and lives in Lambeth Palace for free. Its a job for life.

David I will put your points to a higher authority as I am also interested in the response and get back to you although it might take a few months

 

[Tom P]

It's alway easy for those in places of power to tell the masses that they ought to give more. It is also easy to see that these people rarely give through or of themselves. It's easy to give away other peoples money, especially for political gain.

 

[Graham]

David I will put your points to a higher authority as I am also interested in the response and get back to you although it might take a few months

Nick,

I think Phony Blair is busy resolving the middle eastern problem right now... It may take more than a few months :laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[clive]

pps - The salaries are paid from and by the government.
ppps - We pay the government to pay the clergy.

Wow. I thought our local council did some pretty stupid things!

Why???

 

[David Morton]

Clive, in discussion this morning I have to eat humble pie. The Church of England
is not funded from the state coffers but by parishioners, fund raising efforts,
and direct contributions from Henry viii time onwards, that latter one probably being one of the main sources of revenue. Of those that are allowed to sit in the upper House, they also receive the same as any other so called 'Lord' including all the expenses.
I stand corrected. I have blasphemed...
The gates of Heaven will swing shut in front of me. It's OK. I wasn't planning on going there anyway.
I've been told there is no uniform in Heaven but one sinner asked who the old boy racing around in uniform on a bike.
Pete said "Thats God. He thinks he's an airline Pilot".

 

[Graham]

David, they aren't exactly skint...

How much land does the Church of England own?

The Church Commissioners' 56-page report on the financial state of the Church of England released yesterday, made for, well, not particularly interesting reading really. It's the sort of thing journalists read, digest and regurgitate in highly condensed form so the rest of the population can learn the main points and get on with watching The Apprentice. One of the more fascinating parts of the report, however, concerned the Anglican church's property portfolio, which comprises 120,000 acres in rural areas alone.
The church owns large tracts of land in cathedral cities such as Canterbury, Ely, Peterborough and York and in towns such as Huntingdon and Kelmscott. More recently, it has invested in industrial estates in Swindon and Waltham Cross and shopping areas including the Cribbs Causeway Centre in Bristol. Its interests also spread to European property, with a stake in ING Property Fund Central Europe

What is more, the Commissioners have just gained planning permission for part of the Ashford Great Park estate, where the deputy prime minister is hoping to take time out from working on his dance moves to build some of his much-vaunted affordable housing.
The church even owns property in London's West End - 15% of its commercial portfolio, in fact, mainly within a shared interest in the Pollen estate. It has also begun to capitalise on the need for parking space in the capital, netting £19m last year from selling 99-year leases on garage spaces.
The CofE isn't neglecting property up north either. It holds a 10% interest and associated land in the MetroCentre in Gateshead, the largest shopping and leisure centre in Europe. The centre provides "shoppertainment" including an indoor theme park, an 11-screen cinema and a bewildering array of shops open seven days a week from 10am to 9pm (or 5pm on Sundays - glad to see they're showing a bit of respect). It's reassuring that the Commissioners are looking after the church's estimated £4.3bn well, returning 19.1% on their investments last year. Now all they have to do is get some of the thousands of Sunday shoppers at Gateshead into church.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Maybe I should call for a point of order, or a personal explanation!
When I said stuff the poor people let em get a job! I was referring to the so called "poor" in my country, not the starving people that Mother Theresa was talking about.
I live in the "lucky country" no one is starving, there are those that live on welfare and choose not to work, they are not the starving that the Sainted Mother refers to. That is why people are paying people smugglers to put them on a boat to enter my country illegally. Those people can afford to pay the boat fare, so also are not poor in the Mother Theresa sense of the word.
I am happy to give the truly poor a hand up and have done so often. I truly resent able bodied people who are capable of working asking for a handout and getting it from my tax dollar.
So I repeat, Stuff em, let them get a job.