David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
Another UK government balls up.
- Thread starter David Morton
- Start date
I was responsible for the last ever TSR2 in the Royal Air Force.
I was at RAF Henlow in 1974, doing my last tour of duty before leaving the RAF and was in charge of the airfield, which was grass and had a number of hangars dotted around it as airfields do.
It had been rumoured that there was a TSR2 in a hangar somewhere, but until I was told that it was my job to move it I thought the stories were scuttlebut.
The problem was that even with the engines and equipment removed, the high pressure tyres would have bogged down in the grass airfiled before we had travelled 50 yards.
So, we got 3 hovercraft lifting units, one under each undercarriage leg, lifted it off the ground and towed across the airfield behind a Land Rover to a waiting Queen Mary transporter. It's now at the Imperial War Museum at Duxford.
I flew Canberras in Cyprus in the early 60s, had spoken to the pilots testing it at Boscombe Down and was ready for the TSR2 conversion unit in 1966 when the project was cancelled.
I am doubly bitter about the cancellation of a superlative aircraft by Wilson's petty, vindictive Labour government.
I was at RAF Henlow in 1974, doing my last tour of duty before leaving the RAF and was in charge of the airfield, which was grass and had a number of hangars dotted around it as airfields do.
It had been rumoured that there was a TSR2 in a hangar somewhere, but until I was told that it was my job to move it I thought the stories were scuttlebut.
The problem was that even with the engines and equipment removed, the high pressure tyres would have bogged down in the grass airfiled before we had travelled 50 yards.
So, we got 3 hovercraft lifting units, one under each undercarriage leg, lifted it off the ground and towed across the airfield behind a Land Rover to a waiting Queen Mary transporter. It's now at the Imperial War Museum at Duxford.
I flew Canberras in Cyprus in the early 60s, had spoken to the pilots testing it at Boscombe Down and was ready for the TSR2 conversion unit in 1966 when the project was cancelled.
I am doubly bitter about the cancellation of a superlative aircraft by Wilson's petty, vindictive Labour government.
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
What a pity Tony. Just think I could have been living close to a TSR2 pilot.
I can't remember much about the specifics of crewing now but I recall there was some talk about carrying a warfare specialist/AEO in the back rather than an ordinary simple Navigator.
Maybe that doesn't read all that well, but I guess we don't have many Navs on this website anyway. (but most of our squadron Navs resembled that remark - simple - except one - F/Sgt John Wood - who should have been the captain).
I can't remember much about the specifics of crewing now but I recall there was some talk about carrying a warfare specialist/AEO in the back rather than an ordinary simple Navigator.
Maybe that doesn't read all that well, but I guess we don't have many Navs on this website anyway. (but most of our squadron Navs resembled that remark - simple - except one - F/Sgt John Wood - who should have been the captain).
But David, you got the fabulous F-111, instead, and just think of all the jobs it created in maintenance, repair, and funerary services.
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
John, David,
There is no doubt that the TSR2 would have been a great aircraft, just like the Avro Arrow and a few other advanced aircraft that were cancelled.
That said, I'm fairly sure that TSR2 and Arrows would have punched as many or even more holes in the ground as the lesser aircraft that were chosen in their stead.
There is no doubt that the TSR2 would have been a great aircraft, just like the Avro Arrow and a few other advanced aircraft that were cancelled.
That said, I'm fairly sure that TSR2 and Arrows would have punched as many or even more holes in the ground as the lesser aircraft that were chosen in their stead.
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
John - We did not get the F111 either. I think Australia might have had a couple or three. It took a long time before the Panvia Tornado arrived.
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
Panavia that is. The Tornado turned into a really solid war horse and is still doing sterling service from Italian airbases attacking Libya. Its getting old and is slated to be axed under our latest SDSR (Strategic Defence and Security Review) which got rid of our major asset the HMS Ark Royal, the Bae Harriers, and the Nimrod MR2 just before we declared war on Gadaffi. We need our Nimrod R variants (oh yes - there are still two flying in Afghanistan ) but are unable to change them to the Libyan theater so maybe our int gathering is suffereing a little bit. I would be so bold, knowing what 51sqn R.A.F. is capable of, to suggest that Gadaffi would be history now. Some of the work is currently being done by 343rd Reconnaisance Squadron U.S.A.F. and some of the 51 Sqn crews are currently detached to 343rd until the replacement aeroplane is procured ( as an aside, the replacement aeroplane is older than the Nimrods it's replacing and its a Boeing 707 variant the RC135W thats been sat in the Mojave for god knows how long).
I feel I am getting quite annoyed with our Secretary of State for Defence Dr Liam Fox.
I can understand why people go beserk from time to time.
I feel I am getting quite annoyed with our Secretary of State for Defence Dr Liam Fox.
I can understand why people go beserk from time to time.
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Yep, we got some F111's to absorb huge dollops of our defence budget. Mind you, they were more use than the submarines we commissioned.
RC135Ws??? David, are you serious? I ran into them occasionally up near the Chinese border in Viet Nam while nosing around as a Fast FAC. They'd turn off some of their high powered emitters not to fry us.
What in the world would be the reason to use that old platform, regardless of new black boxes available? They sure as hell aren't what you'd call efficient', maritime partol or otherwise?
What in the world would be the reason to use that old platform, regardless of new black boxes available? They sure as hell aren't what you'd call efficient', maritime partol or otherwise?
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
I'm totally serious. They are going to rename it in the R.A.F. as the Air Seeker.
How daft is that.
There has to be a better way forward. These aeroplanes were in use when Pontious was a Pilot or so it would seem. They are not for Maritime Patrol use but the use 51 squadron will have for them is Elint with about 20 or so language specialists on board. The MSA (Mission System Avionics) will be banks of receivers for all sorts of transmissions from Radar to Mobile Phones and the ISTAR capability will use GCHQ and its computers here in the UK. Basically, if some terrorist just as much as sends a text, apparently they can know where he is, and call in a UAS (Unmanned Aircraft System ) with all that entails. Its a whole new world now but still the 135 continues to be at the heart of it all.
They may start the assembley line again at Everett?
How daft is that.
There has to be a better way forward. These aeroplanes were in use when Pontious was a Pilot or so it would seem. They are not for Maritime Patrol use but the use 51 squadron will have for them is Elint with about 20 or so language specialists on board. The MSA (Mission System Avionics) will be banks of receivers for all sorts of transmissions from Radar to Mobile Phones and the ISTAR capability will use GCHQ and its computers here in the UK. Basically, if some terrorist just as much as sends a text, apparently they can know where he is, and call in a UAS (Unmanned Aircraft System ) with all that entails. Its a whole new world now but still the 135 continues to be at the heart of it all.
They may start the assembley line again at Everett?
Doc Watson
Lifetime Supporter
Ref post #3
Flying Officer Watson here..... was training to be a nav but banged out when the eastern block collapsed and the tornado squadrons were wound back. A lucky escape???
Flying Officer Watson here..... was training to be a nav but banged out when the eastern block collapsed and the tornado squadrons were wound back. A lucky escape???
