Oslo

David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
For all of our Norwegian friends, both here on the website and personal friends in Oslo, Bodo and Andoya, I send my sincere condolences and sorrow at the loss of life in this awful incident in Utoya and in Oslo.
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Oh David,

I feel terrible, this is such a tragedy.

Fran and I will keep our Norwegian friends in our thoughts and prayers.
 

Pat

Supporter
This is so tragic, thoughts and prayers go out to all those affected by this horror.
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
Extremely sad.

And for looking forward, important to remember that all terrorists are not Muslim. Some good commentary this morning:

The bombing and shootings in Oslo also have served as a wake-up call for security services in Europe and the United States that in recent years have become so focused on Islamic terrorists that they may have underestimated the threat of domestic radicals, including those upset by what they see as the influence of Islam.

In the United States the deadly attacks have reawakened memories of the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, where a right-wing extremist, Timothy J. McVeigh, used a fertilizer bomb to blow up a federal government building, killing 168 people. That deadly act had long since been overshadowed by the events of Sept. 11, 2001.

According to Mr. Forbrig, isolated right-wing groups in Europe would rise up and then quickly disappear from the ’60s into the ’90s. But in recent years far-right statements have appeared to lose much of their post-World War II taboo even among some prominent political parties.

Editorial -- or by normally intelligent people in internet forums. JMY

A combination of increased migration from abroad and largely unrestricted movement of people within an enlarged European Union, such as the persecuted Roma minority, helped lay the groundwork for a nationalist, at times starkly chauvinist, revival.

Groups are gaining traction from Hungary to Italy, but it is particularly apparent in northern European countries that long have had liberal immigration policies. The rapid arrival of refugees, asylum seekers and economic migrants, many of them Muslims, led to a significant backlash in places like Denmark, where the Danish People’s Party has 25 out of 179 seats in Parliament, and the Netherlands, where Geert Wilders’s Party for Freedom won 15.5 percent of the vote in the 2010 general election.

Mr. Wilders famously compared the Koran, the holy book of Islam, to Adolf Hitler’s “Mein Kampf.” Both the Danish and Dutch right-wing parties are backing precarious minority governments while not directly participating by having ministers, and inching toward mainstream acceptance in the process.
 
What is the mindset of these sickos who feel they are making a 'point' about something, Muslims or whatever, by shooting a bunch of teenagers? Getting attention? And why did it take 90 minutes for authorities to get there and stop that SOB?
Of course he surrenders without a fight, and now we'll see years of trial BS, with defense lawyers explaining how it wasn't really his fault, he had a bad childhood and was abused, yadda yadda ..."shot while resisting arrest" would be so much simpler, cheaper...and it would help clean up the F%^$#ing gene pool!
 

Keith

Moderator
Extremely sad.

And for looking forward, important to remember that all terrorists are not Muslim. Some good commentary this morning:

The bombing and shootings in Oslo also have served as a wake-up call for security services in Europe and the United States that in recent years have become so focused on Islamic terrorists that they may have underestimated the threat of domestic radicals, including those upset by what they see as the influence of Islam.

In the United States the deadly attacks have reawakened memories of the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, where a right-wing extremist, Timothy J. McVeigh, used a fertilizer bomb to blow up a federal government building, killing 168 people. That deadly act had long since been overshadowed by the events of Sept. 11, 2001.

According to Mr. Forbrig, isolated right-wing groups in Europe would rise up and then quickly disappear from the ’60s into the ’90s. But in recent years far-right statements have appeared to lose much of their post-World War II taboo even among some prominent political parties.

Editorial -- or by normally intelligent people in internet forums. JMY

A combination of increased migration from abroad and largely unrestricted movement of people within an enlarged European Union, such as the persecuted Roma minority, helped lay the groundwork for a nationalist, at times starkly chauvinist, revival.

Groups are gaining traction from Hungary to Italy, but it is particularly apparent in northern European countries that long have had liberal immigration policies. The rapid arrival of refugees, asylum seekers and economic migrants, many of them Muslims, led to a significant backlash in places like Denmark, where the Danish People’s Party has 25 out of 179 seats in Parliament, and the Netherlands, where Geert Wilders’s Party for Freedom won 15.5 percent of the vote in the 2010 general election.

Mr. Wilders famously compared the Koran, the holy book of Islam, to Adolf Hitler’s “Mein Kampf.” Both the Danish and Dutch right-wing parties are backing precarious minority governments while not directly participating by having ministers, and inching toward mainstream acceptance in the process.

Well good for you Mr Young, seems you have a really good handle on it.

What the fuck are you talking about? :huh:

I think you should either stick to US politics or stop reading Wikipedia, either way, your comments at best, are very insensitive.
 

Keith

Moderator
I feel I must apologise for my unseemly outburst Mr Young, but I heard this evening that a very dear friend of many years who used to 'moonlight' for me at a night-club near Brighton whilst working as Chief Engineer on Red Funnel steamers, and now is a senior drilling engineer on a North Sea platform, had a teenage daughter at the camp in question.

He married a beautiful Norwegian girl and is now happily ensconsed in a wonderful wooden villa not far from Oslo. He is now stuck on a rig and they don't know what happened to their daughter yet. He is going frantic - just got an email from him and hopefully they will fly him home by helo shortly.

We have very close ties with Norwegians as you probably know, from WWII so things are a little sensitive right now. Apologies once again for my outburst and foul language.

I just hope upon hope she is found safe and well - they do not deserve anything less.
 

David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
I feel that this was not a place to make any political points. Mr young - maybe a seperate thread. I'm sure somebody will respond.
 

JimmyMac

Lifetime Supporter
I did some big projects with our Norwegian friends for many years - God bless them all.
The Trafalgar Square tree will be such a sad one this year.
 

David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
I think you are right, and as we are very close to the Norwegians (and Danes) I also think the square will be packed to overflowing when the tree is dedicated. As an anonymous mark of solidarity who could not attend ?
Indeed we should also get away from calling this an act of terrorism - it is an act of a very deranged psycopath - pure and simple.
 
I have to agree with you guys.

Jeff - this is for a separate thread. The loss of life is so awful that this is a time for reflection.

The why's and wherefore's need to be discussed, but not right now IMHO.
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
So when it is Muslims who do it, it's ok to scream bloody murder but when it is a white, conservative, Christian fundamentalist with a political agenda it's "not terrorism" and "not appropriate to discuss right now."

Got it.

That in no way takes away from my sentiment (and everyone's) that it's a terrible tragedy and very sad and I certainly hope that Keith's friend's daughter is ok.

But the points laid out above remain valid, especially here where the majority of folks seem to think that no one but a Muslim is capable of engaging in political terrorism like this. Unfortunately, I think this is the time to reflect on the type of mentality that is causing this type of terrorism. It's close minded, it's anti-foreigner and it is anti-Islam. I think we all needed a wakeup call as to how extreme and dangerous that type of thinking can get, and to take a hard look at our own biases and prejudices.

The tragedy is that a lot of innocent Norwegians had to die before we did that.

I think you are right, and as we are very close to the Norwegians (and Danes) I also think the square will be packed to overflowing when the tree is dedicated. As an anonymous mark of solidarity who could not attend ?
Indeed we should also get away from calling this an act of terrorism - it is an act of a very deranged psycopath - pure and simple.
 
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I don't know about other people Jeff, but if it was a Muslim wot dun it, I would have said the same thing as my previous post.

Believe me, I'm not having a go at you,as what you have posted is correct. I just think we could start a different thread to cover the points rather than politicizing a thread that is meant as respectful condolence to those affected.
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
In most instances I would agree with you, and you certainly don't ever post the anti-Islam stuff I see here from others. But quite honestly, I think on this forum in particular I think there are some who need this point made to them as clearly and as immediately as possible.

I don't know about other people Jeff, but if it was a Muslim wot dun it, I would have said the same thing as my previous post.

Believe me, I'm not having a go at you,as what you have posted is correct. I just think we could start a different thread to cover the points rather than politicizing a thread that is meant as respectful condolence to those affected.
 

Keith

Moderator
In most instances I would agree with you, and you certainly don't ever post the anti-Islam stuff I see here from others. But quite honestly, I think on this forum in particular I think there are some who need this point made to them as clearly and as immediately as possible.

Well, who then O Wise One?

Perhaps if you identify them you could target your wrath more precisely instead of drawing everybody into your muddled agenda.

You obviously have a licence to preach so please start a new thread.

BTW do you actually know many Muslims apart from the guy that sells you your gas? (Answer on new thread please)
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
Wrath? No, I'm just pointing out that some of the bias and bigotry on this board is the precursor to what happened in Oslo.

I've seen threads and posts like that from Domtoni, Morton, some guy named Wild, Al Wolhstrom, Pete, Veek, and others.

I know and have known Muslims all my life, starting with 9th grade when we had several come to my high school from Lebanon. Since then, I've been fortunate to have traveled some, including to Jordan, and have worked with many Iraqis as a significant portion of my law practice from 03-07 or so was related to the Iraq reconstruction effort. Right now, I work for a large multinational corportaion that has subsidiaries in Muslim countries and (I'm guessing but I think this is correct) thousands of Muslim employees.

I have no muddled agenda. My point is clear. Over and over on this board we see threads about Muslims being the only or the principal source of terrorism in the world. We see threads about Muslism "taking over" Western culture, and attacking immigration, etc. And I'm telling you that -- and not taking away from the sadness we should feel and condolences we should give -- the end game of that type of thinking came home to roost in Norway this weekend.

It's all sad, and it's all very preventable.

Well, who then O Wise One?

Perhaps if you identify them you could target your wrath more precisely instead of drawing everybody into your muddled agenda.

You obviously have a licence to preach so please start a new thread.

BTW do you actually know many Muslims apart from the guy that sells you your gas? (Answer on new thread please)
 
Jeff many here have asked over and over respectfully to take it elsewhere. Any point you wanted to make has now been negated by your insistance on continued posting and insensitivity. This is a horrible tragedy not a time for grandstanding. I recently heard that the max sentence this person could recieve is 21 years yet another horrifying aspect.
 
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