787 Load Test

Interesting post. Thanks. The thought occurred, is there such an animal as some kind of 'modulus' equivalent to Young's e for composites, beyond which permanent deformation takes place but may still function (while somewhat bent)? Or does carbon fiber either bend (without permanent deformation) or break/fail?
 

David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
Mike, as far as I knew in a previous existence the stiffness (E) of CF was a function of how thick it was and it had no known fatigue life. This may have changed in the last few years. Points of impact reduce it to cracking and producing shards of CF everywhere. When JJ Lehto smacked the F1GTR into the wall at the 1997 Le Mans(fell asleep) the tub was very badly cracked at the front left and Gordon Murray retired it.
There were loads of shards of CF inside the car as well.
On the subject of Wing fatigue rigs, we had one at BAe Woodford and I saw the 16mm cine film of the Nimrod wing. Staggering how much they bent it by and it still recovered - and that was conventional Aluminium construction.
 

Terry Oxandale

Skinny Man
150% of the highest loading the wing will ever see. Can anybody convert that to Gs? At the angles that test was dealing with, there's not much lift being created anyway. I kept waiting for a failure as I harken back to failure testing of the aluminium wings.
 
I'm surprised at how low a % safety buffer that is. 150% of what the engineers believe the wing will ever experience? I'd like to see 200% or more....and it's worth a little more weight and fuel consumption to have it.

Incidentally, I'm suprised they tested without the control surfaces bolted onto the wing as I can imagine that the location points of the control surfaces would have experienced some point loading thereby increasing the chance of a catastrophic failure.

Once CF goes beyond its stress limit and cracks it's done. As in, the whole piece is done. There's no repairing it. Very different than most metals. Many years ago I saw equivalent stress testing down at the Boeing plant in Seattle with metal wings and it was a different approach - stress the wing beyond it's limits and see what results. Many times the wing would spring back to normal after looking like a pretzel. In contrast, CF would be reduced to a pile of broken pieces on the floor...but I'm guessing that's not a test Boeing wants to run, and certainly would not want the media to have access to.

My last company made extremely precise sensors for the singular purpose of detecting flaws (including stress induced cracks) in CF. The US Air Force bought our sensing equipment, as did Boeing and Airbus, as our tech vastly surpassed any other sensing technology. When you look at CF that has been stressed to the point of cracking, it looks like a piece of balsa wood that's been run over by a truck. That's definitely not a wing you want to have holding up you and your family at 30,000 feet.

CF is being used in large commercial planes for one reason: the plane weighs less so you can reduce fuel consumption. Once again, it's all just a matter of an operating cost reduction for the airlines, and it has nothing to do with what's right or what's a safer way to fly.
 
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Terry Oxandale

Skinny Man
Incidentally, I'm suprised they tested without the control surfaces bolted onto the wing as I can imagine that the location points of the control surfaces would have experienced some point loading thereby increasing the chance of a catastrophic failure.

As I watched that video, I also wondered how the moving surfaces (slats, flaps. etc) respond to that kind of distortion on the mounting points, and if they are as capable of following the distortion without binding or failing, and still remain functional.
 

David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
The Control, Flap, and Speedbrake surfaces are never subject to the same bending that the main wing is. Clearly they are subject to their own fatigue tests and the attachments are tolerant of 'normal' wing bending. Look at a loaded 747-400 with 170 tons at the start of a trip and the wings are almost anhedral and drooping down and at the other end of the trip 15 hours later with only 6 tons remaining the wing tips are riding high and easily seen from the flight deck. The wing has probably 20 to 25feet movement at the tip but everything usually stays attached.
 
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