I realize the student numbers aren't the same, but the math and science are miserable for the dollar amount. I would say we need to rethink our education system. U.S. Education Spending & Student Performance vs. The World Infographic | MAT@USC
US education vs the world
- Thread starter Al Wohlstrom
- Start date
The institutions of higher education are more interested in propagandizing the population than educating them in the traditional manner.
The Statists need a dumbed down, brainwashed citizenry to accept the loss of their freedoms to the centralized government that is getting closer and closer to reality here.
The Statists need a dumbed down, brainwashed citizenry to accept the loss of their freedoms to the centralized government that is getting closer and closer to reality here.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
What's interesting about those numbers is that for most/all of the countries ahead of us, they have a far more nationalized system of primary education with tighter controls on what locals can and can't do.
Here in the US, education policy is made mostly at the local level, is funded by local property values, and is therefore very uneven as a result with poorer areas not having the resources to educate, and with even the wealthier areas being subject to the vagaries of local politicis.
Last, note that no yahoo local board of eduction in France or the UK or Japan or Australia is trying to ram creationism down the throats of kids as science. Small point, but at least they get that question right on the tests....
Here in the US, education policy is made mostly at the local level, is funded by local property values, and is therefore very uneven as a result with poorer areas not having the resources to educate, and with even the wealthier areas being subject to the vagaries of local politicis.
Last, note that no yahoo local board of eduction in France or the UK or Japan or Australia is trying to ram creationism down the throats of kids as science. Small point, but at least they get that question right on the tests....
Jeffery, I dare you to pretend you're a conservative, go to any major university campus, and try to talk politics, as a conservative, with the students there.
I dare you to try to represent the conservative side of any issue to a professor at that campus.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
I went to Vanderbilt University Law School The undergrad newspaper was conservative. Endorsed Bush I in the 92 election. The undergrad student body was made up of all types.
The law school professors ran the political gamut as well.
Certainly, some colleges are more liberal than others. ALL are not.
Did you go to college? HOw old are you? When was the last time you were actually ON a college campus?
The law school professors ran the political gamut as well.
Certainly, some colleges are more liberal than others. ALL are not.
Did you go to college? HOw old are you? When was the last time you were actually ON a college campus?
Inner city schools are run by liberals. They spend an incredible amount per student, and yet they don't have enough money for books. By the time all that money filters down through the bureaucracy, like every other government entity, they need more money.
Book Shortage Plagues L.A. Unified - Los Angeles Times
Book Shortage Plagues L.A. Unified - Los Angeles Times
Believe it or not, I dropped out of college to go on the road as a musician!
In the past five years I visited numerous campuses with my kids to select schools for them to attend.
In California, you do not talk conservative politics on campus safely.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
You're wrong.
Ever hear of Pepperdine? Or even USC really.
Is Berkeley liberal? Of course. UC Davis? Sure. But your last statement below is laughably wrong.
Ever hear of Pepperdine? Or even USC really.
Is Berkeley liberal? Of course. UC Davis? Sure. But your last statement below is laughably wrong.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
ACtually, given that we fund schools via local property taxes, it is generally the case that inner city schools have far LESS money to spend per student than those in the burbs. Nothing in that "article" (what, four lines?) says anything about spending per student.
Most of the LAUSD budget comes from state funds. This article mentions that they get federal funds too.
Where does LAUSD's revenue for the K-12 education program come from? | LAUSD Budget Realities
They don't mention how much, but this link shows that the Department of Education spent 100 billion dollars. I find it interesting that a government entity is allowed to make their report sound like a B.O. campaign speech LOL.
FY 2011 ED Budget Summary: Summary
This teacher was asked if inner city schools get less funding than suburban schools.
I teach in East Los Angeles - about as inner city as you can get. Districts calculate funding and teacher load the same across all of their schools. It is based on daily attendence calculations. While the district spreads its monies evenly, there are some issues that leads to different total funding.
1. inner city schools have different needs than more suburban schools. Because of my schools location and size -we have many out of the classroom positions not common in smaller or more suburban schools. We have a gang intervention specialist, a psychologist, a homeless advocate, languge fluency experts and various language coordinators - who all are not very common in most schools. This is in addition to all the common positions - deans, librarians, nurses - etc. My school needs to pay these people regardless of our funding levels.
2. as an inner city school - we do qualify for *more* funding - not from our district - but from various state and federal grants and programs - Title 1 would be a good example.
Another poster got a negative, I feel unfairly - he was spot on - inner city schools do often have programs to pay certain teachers in need a bit more -my district gave a 5k bonus to math or science teachers who commit for 5 years. But where it really shows is when districts are close together. My district has to pay much more than some suburban districts only 1 mile away - to attract candidates.
So - if it *seems* like inner city schools have less - its because of the huge output required to service our students. My school has close to a 10 percent special education rate and close to 2 percent homeless - I doubt San Marino schools have similar.
I teach in East Los Angeles - about as inner city as you can get. Districts calculate funding and teacher load the same across all of their schools. It is based on daily attendence calculations. While the district spreads its monies evenly, there are some issues that leads to different total funding.
1. inner city schools have different needs than more suburban schools. Because of my schools location and size -we have many out of the classroom positions not common in smaller or more suburban schools. We have a gang intervention specialist, a psychologist, a homeless advocate, languge fluency experts and various language coordinators - who all are not very common in most schools. This is in addition to all the common positions - deans, librarians, nurses - etc. My school needs to pay these people regardless of our funding levels.
2. as an inner city school - we do qualify for *more* funding - not from our district - but from various state and federal grants and programs - Title 1 would be a good example.
Another poster got a negative, I feel unfairly - he was spot on - inner city schools do often have programs to pay certain teachers in need a bit more -my district gave a 5k bonus to math or science teachers who commit for 5 years. But where it really shows is when districts are close together. My district has to pay much more than some suburban districts only 1 mile away - to attract candidates.
So - if it *seems* like inner city schools have less - its because of the huge output required to service our students. My school has close to a 10 percent special education rate and close to 2 percent homeless - I doubt San Marino schools have similar.
Lets not forget the free breakfast, lunch and snak programs for the schools with poor populations. There, is some extra funds.
Then there is this little factoid. Our government education system was built to promote mediocrity. There is never a shortage of ways to demonstrate this. How about the words of one Albert Schanker. Who is Albert Schanker? He was the head of the American Federation of Teachers unions for a long, long time. Shanker once said that as president of the AFT he would worry about the children when the children could vote in union elections. Back in 1989, Shanker had this to say about government education ..
Then there is this little factoid. Our government education system was built to promote mediocrity. There is never a shortage of ways to demonstrate this. How about the words of one Albert Schanker. Who is Albert Schanker? He was the head of the American Federation of Teachers unions for a long, long time. Shanker once said that as president of the AFT he would worry about the children when the children could vote in union elections. Back in 1989, Shanker had this to say about government education ..
It’s time to admit that public education operates like a planned economy, a bureaucratic system in which everybody’s role is spelled out in advance and there are few incentives for innovation and productivity. It’s no surprise that our school system doesn’t improve: it more resembles the communist economy than our own market economy.
The main reason for the free breakfast, lunch and snack programs is that the more the federal government gives the more control they have over the curriculum.
Here's the difference: in the US we have very weak (comparatively) parental support for education compared to most other westernized countries. In other words, we, as parents, generally expect school for our children to be both day care and the sole educational source of information. The reality is that most parents are coming home at 6 or 6:30, tired and beat, plop on the couch, and that's the evening. The children are playing x-box in the basement, or glued to facebook on a laptop. That's no way to support, and improve, a child's education.
Parents in most other westernized countries take a more involved role with their children's education (generally, for the most part), particularly Asia, followed up by western Europe. Comparatively, the average US parent is completely apathetic. You think most Japanese or Korean parents let their kids play x-box every night and neglect their home work? Not likely.
I suspect US guys on this forum who are also parents are a significant cut above the US average. The average is pretty darn low in my estimation.
Parents in most other westernized countries take a more involved role with their children's education (generally, for the most part), particularly Asia, followed up by western Europe. Comparatively, the average US parent is completely apathetic. You think most Japanese or Korean parents let their kids play x-box every night and neglect their home work? Not likely.
I suspect US guys on this forum who are also parents are a significant cut above the US average. The average is pretty darn low in my estimation.
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Guys,
I have been hearing this same story all my life. Its always the same, America is doomed!
50 years ago in the fifth grade they were telling us that the US is falling behind, Sweden, Japan, Norway, China, even the USSR were raising better, smarter children and America would fall behind.
I'm still waiting.
This story is no more true now than it was then,
I do not know about the rest of the country, but here in Silicon Valley, kids from around the country are out thinking, out working and out developing the world by a large margin.
Get over it, the next generation will be just fine, smarter than us and smarter than the world!
I have been hearing this same story all my life. Its always the same, America is doomed!
50 years ago in the fifth grade they were telling us that the US is falling behind, Sweden, Japan, Norway, China, even the USSR were raising better, smarter children and America would fall behind.
I'm still waiting.
This story is no more true now than it was then,
I do not know about the rest of the country, but here in Silicon Valley, kids from around the country are out thinking, out working and out developing the world by a large margin.
Get over it, the next generation will be just fine, smarter than us and smarter than the world!
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Jim,
You must be dreaming. You missed the 60 Minutes episode on graduates that are being hired by companies and sought after by top universities and where they are coming from. The top sought after graduates are coming from India. Competition for these guys is unbelievable. The ones that don't make it are then the top guys our universities are seeking out for their graduate programs. Not Americans.
You are right about one thing though. We do excel in ideas. The problem is, that, that is all we are doing. Ideas don't cost anything and you can't sell them. If you can, you don't have anything to replace it with. Once sold it is gone forever. Manufacturing makes money over and over. We aren't manufacturing anything much to speak of. Of course there is the new small to mid sized car company that the manufacturer went to the unions and told them that they were going to build the factory in Mexico for I believe something like 11 billion $$$ and why(cheaper labor cost and better working conditions). They then made them an offer to build it in Michigan or Indiana, not sure,,, if they would abandon their wage and work condition rules(no they aren't going back to child labor), and make half of what they use to make. The unions came to their senses and figured that half of something is better than all of nothing. They are finally coming to the realization that they have priced and positioned themselves out of the world market.
On puplic education. If you remember how it all got started, education was under local control and the standards were dictated by the local boards which tried to tailor the education toward the needs of the comunity. Rural scholls were tought the things that the rural comunity needed and the city schols taught what was needed for city living. One of the early founders of puplic education whose name I cannot recall, stated that we need an education statndard that is needed to produce good workers(not inventors or leaders or innovators)
You must be dreaming. You missed the 60 Minutes episode on graduates that are being hired by companies and sought after by top universities and where they are coming from. The top sought after graduates are coming from India. Competition for these guys is unbelievable. The ones that don't make it are then the top guys our universities are seeking out for their graduate programs. Not Americans.
You are right about one thing though. We do excel in ideas. The problem is, that, that is all we are doing. Ideas don't cost anything and you can't sell them. If you can, you don't have anything to replace it with. Once sold it is gone forever. Manufacturing makes money over and over. We aren't manufacturing anything much to speak of. Of course there is the new small to mid sized car company that the manufacturer went to the unions and told them that they were going to build the factory in Mexico for I believe something like 11 billion $$$ and why(cheaper labor cost and better working conditions). They then made them an offer to build it in Michigan or Indiana, not sure,,, if they would abandon their wage and work condition rules(no they aren't going back to child labor), and make half of what they use to make. The unions came to their senses and figured that half of something is better than all of nothing. They are finally coming to the realization that they have priced and positioned themselves out of the world market.
On puplic education. If you remember how it all got started, education was under local control and the standards were dictated by the local boards which tried to tailor the education toward the needs of the comunity. Rural scholls were tought the things that the rural comunity needed and the city schols taught what was needed for city living. One of the early founders of puplic education whose name I cannot recall, stated that we need an education statndard that is needed to produce good workers(not inventors or leaders or innovators)
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Bill,
Why are these top graduates coming here?
The best and brightest folks from around the world have been coming here for hundreds of years, why is that!
From Einstein to Fermi.............the have always come here and still are!
If what all you doomsayers say is true, all that would be reversed, our best and brightest would be going to India for work and education.
That is not happening, is it!
Why are these top graduates coming here?
The best and brightest folks from around the world have been coming here for hundreds of years, why is that!
From Einstein to Fermi.............the have always come here and still are!
If what all you doomsayers say is true, all that would be reversed, our best and brightest would be going to India for work and education.
That is not happening, is it!
Ron Earp
Admin
Next generation of kids, sure. Next generation of US kids? I doubt it.
In my line of work I spend a lot of my time in some of the best university laboratories and companies in the world (in the realm of life sciences, which includes pharmaceutical companies). The lack of American students in Ph.D. programs is staggering. There are entire labs at places such as Scripps, Yale, Mayo, Harvard, Dana Farber, Burnham, Merck, J&J, etc. that do not have a single American borne or native English speaking person working or managing the lab.
The US post-graduate educational system is fantastic due to funding and facilities, but foreign borne nationals seem to be the ones that realize this and enjoy the resources. Or, maybe they are the only ones that can cut the mustard and actually get into graduate school these days. Americans seem to want to head to school for finance, business, and law; professions that traditionally get paid a hell of a lot more than scientists and engineers, although those professions do little to set a country at the forefront of technology and development.
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