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Old 20th November 2015, 10:44 AM   #1801
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Re: More Global Cooling/Warming/Change hoax.

" Somehow, they managed to calculate Earth’s temperature within 0.01 degrees – even though they had no temperature data for about half of the land surface, including none in Greenland and very little in Africa or Antarctica."

Record Crushing Fraud From NOAA And NASA Ahead Of Paris | Real Science
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Old 21st November 2015, 01:11 PM   #1802
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Re: More Global Cooling/Warming/Change hoax.

MIT Climate Scientist Dr. Richard Lindzen: 'Demonization of CO2 is irrational at best and even modest warming is mostly beneficial.' - 'When someone says this is the warmest temperature on record. What are they talking about? It’s just nonsense. This is a very tiny change period.'
Princeton Physicist Dr. Will Happer: 'Policies to slow CO2 emissions are really based on nonsense. We are being led down a false path. To call carbon dioxide a pollutant is really Orwellian. You are calling something a pollutant that we all produce. Where does that lead us eventually?'
Greenpeace Co-Founder Dr. Patrick Moore: 'We are dealing with pure political propaganda that has nothing to do with science.'

MIT Climate Scientist Dr. Richard Lindzen: 'Demonization of CO2 is irrational at best and even modest warming is mostly beneficial.' - 'When someone says this is the warmest temperature on record. What are they talking about? It’s just nonsense. This is a very tiny change period.'
Princeton Physicist Dr. Will Happer: 'Policies to slow CO2 emissions are really based on nonsense. We are being led down a false path. To call carbon dioxide a pollutant is really Orwellian. You are calling something a pollutant that we all produce. Where does that lead us eventually?'
Greenpeace Co-Founder Dr. Patrick Moore: 'We are dealing with pure political propaganda that has nothing to do with science.'


Read more: Prominent Scientists Declare Climate Claims Ahead of UN Summit ‘Irrational’ – ‘Based On Nonsense’ – ‘Leading us down a false path’ | Climate Depot
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Old 21st November 2015, 01:25 PM   #1803
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Re: More Global Cooling/Warming/Change hoax.

'Doesn't fit the alarmist's narrative, Bob. Therefore, the individuals mentioned above obviously must be/are quacks.
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Old 22nd November 2015, 10:34 PM   #1804
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Re: More Global Cooling/Warming/Change hoax.

Interesting article in Scientific American related to the character of this thread.

Consilience and Consensus

At some point in history of all scientific theories, only a minority of scientists--or even just one--supported them, before evidence accumulated to the point of general acceptance. The Copernican model, germ theory, the vaccination principle, evolutionary theory, plate tectonics and the big bang theory were all one heretical ideas that became consensus science. How did this happen?

An answer may be found in what 19th-century philosopher of science William Whewell called a "consilience of inductions." For a theory to be accepted, Whewell argued, it must be based on more than on induction--or single generalization drawn from specific facts. It must have multiple inductions that converge on one another, independently but in conjunction.

Consensus science is a phrase often heard today in conjunction with anthropogenic global warming (AGW). Is there a consensus on AGW? There is. The tens of thousands of scientists who belong to the American Association for the advancement of Science, the American Chemical Society, the American Geophysical Union, the American Medical Association, the American Meteorological Society, the American Physical Society, the Geological Society of America, the U.S. National Academy of Sciences and, most notably, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Changes all concur that AGW is in fact real. Why?

It is not because of the sheer number of scientists. After all, science is not conducted by poll. As Albert Einstein said in response to a 1931 book skeptical of relativity theory entitled 100 Authors against Einstein, "Why 100? If I were wrong, one would have been enough." The answer is that there is a convergence of evidence from multiple lines of inquiry -- pollen, tree rings, ice cores, corals, glacial and polar ice-cap melt, sea-level rise, ecological shifts, carbon dioxide increase, the unprecedented rate of temperature increase -- that all converge into a singular conclusion. AGW doubters point to the occasional anomaly in a particular data set, as if one incongruity gainsays all the other lines of evidence. But that is not how consilience science works. For AGW skeptics to overturn the consensus, they would need to find flaws with all the lines of supportive evidence and show a consistent convergence of evidence toward the different theory that explains the data. (Creationists have the same problem overturning evolutionary theory.) This they have not done.

...Of those papers that stated the position on AGW, about 97 percent concluded that climate change is real and caused by humans. What about the remaining 8 percent or so of the studies? What if they're right? In a 2015 paper published in Theoretical and Applied Climatology, Rasmus Benestad of Norwegian Meteorogical Institute, Nuccitelli and their colleagues examined the 3 percent and found "a number of methodological flaws and a pattern of common mistakes." That is, instead of the 3 percent of papers converging to a better explanation than that provided by the 97 percent, they failed to converge to anything.

"There was no cohesive, consistent alternative theory to human caused global warming," Nuccitelli concluded in an August 25, 2015, commentary in the Guardian. "Some blame global warming on the sun, others on orbital cycles of other planets, other on ocean cycles, and so on. There is a 97% expert consensus on a cohesive theory that's overwhelmingly supported by the scientific evidence, but the 2-3% of papers that reject that consensus are all over the map, even contradicting each other. The one thing they seem to have in common is methodological flaws like cherry picking, curve fitting, ignoring inconvenient data, and disregarding know physics." For example, one skeptical paper attributed climate change to lunar or solar cycles, but to make these models work for the 4,000-year period that the authors considered, they had to throw out 6,000 years' work of earlier data.

Such practices are deceptive and fail to further climate science when exposed by skeptical scrutiny, and integral element to the scientific process.

Scientific American, December 2015. page 81
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Old 23rd November 2015, 02:49 AM   #1805
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Re: More Global Cooling/Warming/Change hoax.

This goes for about 30 minutes, however IMHO it is worth a watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTTaXqVEGkU
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Old 23rd November 2015, 03:10 AM   #1806
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Re: More Global Cooling/Warming/Change hoax.

I ask again: what was the percentage of 'scientists' (or the average people on the street for that matter) who believed the Earth was flat B4 Columbus? How many believed the sun revolved around the Earth back in the day? How many 'scientists' believed we were entering a new Ice Age in the 1970s? How do 'scientists' explain the halt in "global warming" over the past 17-18-19 years or whatever it's been? And why are the polar ice caps still here...in fact, why, as of May, 2015, does updated NASA data show polar sea ice is about 5 percent above the post-1979 average?

And I love the fact that somehow 'science' has gone from "Ice Age" to "global warming" to "climate change", to the planet's latest metamorphosis: "anthropogenic global warming (AGW)"...which 'scientists' evidentially arrived at via a "consilience of inductions"...whatever th' gallopin' diphthong that might be.

'Won't even hazard a guess as to what 'scientists' might come up with next week.

It's all obviously waaaaaaaaaaay above my lowly pay grade anyway...not to mention my intelligence level.

G'night, all.
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Old 23rd November 2015, 11:58 AM   #1807
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Re: More Global Cooling/Warming/Change hoax.

Karl Popper put an end to the idea of 'multiple inductions' some 70 years ago. The fundamental quality of a theory that allows it to be deemed scientific is that it is capable of falsification; AGW as a theory is not and is therefore pseudoscientific claptrap.
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Old 25th November 2015, 06:36 PM   #1808
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Re: More Global Cooling/Warming/Change hoax.

Well now, strictly in the interests of balance, I'll post more 'claptrap.'

2015 likely to be warmest on record, says UN weather body
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Old 25th November 2015, 06:43 PM   #1809
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Re: More Global Cooling/Warming/Change hoax.

" Somehow, they managed to calculate Earth’s temperature within 0.01 degrees – even though they had no temperature data for about half of the land surface, including none in Greenland and very little in Africa or Antarctica."

Whatever else they may bullshit you about, they jimmie the data to get there. It really is that simple.


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Well now, strictly in the interests of balance, I'll post more 'claptrap.'

2015 likely to be warmest on record, says UN weather body
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Old 25th November 2015, 10:19 PM   #1810
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Re: More Global Cooling/Warming/Change hoax.

Somehow after cleaning up omissions over the last 60 years (I remember in the 50s the smog was so bad in Pasadena, it was hard to breath and your eyes watered) things have gotten worse or so they say. Don't have a clue how that happened. As with record heat we have record cold, hence "climate change" instead of "global warming". It's still just the money.
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Old 25th November 2015, 10:30 PM   #1811
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Re: More Global Cooling/Warming/Change hoax.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Wohlstrom View Post
Somehow after cleaning up omissions over the last 60 years (I remember in the 50s the smog was so bad in Pasadena, it was hard to breath and your eyes watered) things have gotten worse or so they say. Don't have a clue how that happened. As with record heat we have record cold, hence "climate change" instead of "global warming". It's still just the money.
Indeed, follow the money. Of course the UN are about to have their climate conference so expect more announcements like this.
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Old 25th November 2015, 10:55 PM   #1812
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Re: More Global Cooling/Warming/Change hoax.

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...the UN are about to have their climate conference so expect more announcements like this.
...announcements that are JUST as 'b.s.'-filled as all those that preceded 'em.
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Old 26th November 2015, 12:11 PM   #1813
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Re: More Global Cooling/Warming/Change hoax.

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...announcements that are JUST as 'b.s.'-filled as all those that preceded 'em.

But when it comes down to it Larry, that is really only your own opinion - just because you have suspicions of foul play in certain areas of climate change science doesn't mean to say that all climate change science is debunked.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the earth is warming and my gut says that man's activity has contributed, that being my personal opinion. However, I fail to see how, unless there's a universal consensus, that process can be halted, let alone reversed, so we're heading for hell in a handcart, eventually. I owe it to my grandchildren to be concerned about it and in my own small way, I have elected to change certain aspects of my lifestyle in order to lessen any impact I personally have. That's all I can do.

But, it's a positive action and somewhat preferable in my view to continually naysaying everything that even remotely conflicts with the sceptics somewhat myopic worldview, even though, as I have said, such actions might eventually prove futile.
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Old 26th November 2015, 01:39 PM   #1814
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Re: More Global Cooling/Warming/Change hoax.

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But when it comes down to it Larry, that is really only your own opinion - just because you have suspicions of foul play in certain areas of climate change science doesn't mean to say that all climate change science is debunked.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the earth is warming and my gut says that man's activity has contributed, that being my personal opinion. However, I fail to see how, unless there's a universal consensus, that process can be halted, let alone reversed, so we're heading for hell in a handcart, eventually. I owe it to my grandchildren to be concerned about it and in my own small way, I have elected to change certain aspects of my lifestyle in order to lessen any impact I personally have. That's all I can do.

But, it's a positive action and somewhat preferable in my view to continually naysaying everything that even remotely conflicts with the sceptics somewhat myopic worldview, even though, as I have said, such actions might eventually prove futile.
I'm all FOR s-e-n-s-i-b-l-e (AKA common sense) environmental policies/practices that any S-A-N-E person can see the sense in - like not dumping crankcase oil down storm drains for instance - but, I'm NOT for policies that shut down whole industries using junk science as the root 'justification' for same (can you say 'coal industry'/'coal-fired power plants'?).

Neither am I going to get all excited about the Earth having warmed .0000000000000000001 degrees over the past "X" number of years/decades...and I'm certainly not 'for' paying the EPA t-r-i-l-l-i-o-n-s of dollars in fines/penalties/FEES for idiotic 'violations'. For instance: right here in my own hometown, a construction company was fined $10K because one of its bulldozers (or track hoes...'don't recall which) left the imprint of one of its tracks on the shoreline of a local lake! B-I-G D-E-A-L! Mommy Nature does worse that THAT every winter! I'm also dead set against at least 90% of all the Nazi-like "wetlands rules" and "shoreline rules". 'Example of the latter: Not being allowed to construct retaining walls or use boulders to prevent the erosion of a dirt bank along a shoreline/riverbank. THAT'S just plain I-D-I-O-T-I-C.

Additionally, I'm getting sick and tired of the EPA/GOV'T telling me how big my furnace can be relative to the size of the building being heated...how many gallons of water-per-flush my toilets can use...how many sq. ft. of WINDOWS my home can have and the TYPE they must be...what percentage of "non-porous" coverings (paved driveways/buildings, etc.) I'm permitted to have on my property, and other 'do-so-because-we-say-so' crap of a similar nature.

I believe by now you've probably gotten my drift...

Last edited by Larry L.; 26th November 2015 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 26th November 2015, 03:26 PM   #1815
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Re: More Global Cooling/Warming/Change hoax.

On the face of it, that does sound like over zealous application of some very daft legislation. Thank the good Lord we have nothing like that over here, yet....

I find it very odd that the two nations I would toss an envious glance at as having a frontier style pioneering spirit, namely the USA and Australia, seem hell bent on competing with each other as to who can be more obnoxiously Politically Correct.
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Old 26th November 2015, 04:36 PM   #1816
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Re: More Global Cooling/Warming/Change hoax.

Guess we had climate change without cars over 100 years ago.
The Hottest Day on Earth, 100 Years Ago - History in the Headlines

and more
Highest Recorded Temperatures
over 60% are not in the current period
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Old 26th November 2015, 04:39 PM   #1817
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Re: More Global Cooling/Warming/Change hoax.

Rhone Glacier drone footage shows ice retreat
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Old 26th November 2015, 05:06 PM   #1818
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Re: More Global Cooling/Warming/Change hoax.

It's done it before and will again. Where's all the flooding from sea level rise that Gore promised? In about six years we will have cooling due to another change in the sun, that's what makes climate change. The sun, what a concept.
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Old 26th November 2015, 05:34 PM   #1819
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Re: More Global Cooling/Warming/Change hoax.

Sun Affects Climate Change More Than Previously Thought : Environment : Nature World News

https://www.aip.org/history/climate/solar.htm

Sun Affects Climate Change More Than Previously Thought : Environment : Nature World News

Changes in the Earth’s Climate Caused by Changes in Solar Activity.

How Does the Sun Affect Our climate? | Union of Concerned Scientists

How the Sun Affects Climate: Solar and Milankovitch Cycles - Windows to the Universe

And all without smoke and mirrors! But you can't make money this way.
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Old 26th November 2015, 06:49 PM   #1820
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Re: More Global Cooling/Warming/Change hoax.

Did you actually read the articles you linked to Al?

They seem to be looking for a way to properly assign a value to natural perturbations due to the sun so that those can be separated from perturbations caused by mankind. Some of the articles even appear to directly contradict your stance.

Here's a direct quote from one of them...

"Thus, although fluctuations in the amount of solar energy reaching our atmosphere do influence our climate, the global warming trend of the past six decades cannot be attributed to changes in the sun."
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