Pearl Harbor
- Thread starter JIMMYMAC
- Start date
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Yes lest we forget.
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Mesa,
Oh, my.
I had not heard that story, the Oaklahoma was hit early and often during tha attack, there were very few Oklahoma survivors.
On my way home today, I will drop off some flower at the Nimitz, Spruance graves. These great men are buried together just up the road from here.
I was born in Honolulu and lived on Wake, so the first few months of the war have always interested me.
I will never forget.
Oh, my.
I had not heard that story, the Oaklahoma was hit early and often during tha attack, there were very few Oklahoma survivors.
On my way home today, I will drop off some flower at the Nimitz, Spruance graves. These great men are buried together just up the road from here.
I was born in Honolulu and lived on Wake, so the first few months of the war have always interested me.
I will never forget.
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Somehow Google forgets. I expected to see some sort of graphic with the Google logo to honor the men and women who died that day. But alas, i guess they find honoring something like Esperanto more important.
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Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
What DO they call it, then? What else is it? It wasn't exactly the provisional IRA, was it? Who the hell do they think it was, Ghostbusters?
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Speaking of the USS Oaklahoma, I found this interesting photo. I shows just how quickly things were changing around the time of the Pearl Harbor attack. Additionaly is shows how dilusional the Japanese were to attack the US.
The small ship against the pier us the USS Oklahoma, after being raised from the harbor (quite a job in itself). The Large ship tied up alongside is the new USS Wisconsin.
On December 7th 1941, the US was Building six of these monsters (only four were completed) and another six fast Battleships of the very similar Washington and South Dakota class. Additionally approximately 20 fast fleet aircraft carriers of the Essex and Independance class were being build..........................The Japanese knew this!
The ships that were lost in the attack were virtually all obsolete.
What were they thinking?
The small ship against the pier us the USS Oklahoma, after being raised from the harbor (quite a job in itself). The Large ship tied up alongside is the new USS Wisconsin.
On December 7th 1941, the US was Building six of these monsters (only four were completed) and another six fast Battleships of the very similar Washington and South Dakota class. Additionally approximately 20 fast fleet aircraft carriers of the Essex and Independance class were being build..........................The Japanese knew this!
The ships that were lost in the attack were virtually all obsolete.
What were they thinking?
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Some would have called the attack a conspiracy theory. To support this theory, I recently have heard here in the UK that the Brits knew the code, and helped the Germans attack Coventry (by catching the German spies) with its extreme loss of life, to keep the Germans from knowing the code had been broken. Cracking the code ultimately brought about the German defeat.
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Dom,
I have read many books on the subject, it appears that for several reasons, partially broken codes as well as seeing the Singapore, Dutch East Indies invasion fleets heading south. Everyone knew something was going to happen in the next few days.
Most expected the Japanese to take on fairly weak British/Dutch forces to obtain oil/raw materials. What they did not know, was that the Japanese Carriers were heading to Pearl.
They had given several War warnings to the Philippines and Hawaii Commands, yet both were essentally caught napping. Kimmel and Short (Hawiian Navy/Army) were canned, MacAurthur (Philippines) should have been!
As far as the Coventry attack goes, to say the Brits "helped" the Germans attack Coventry is way over stating what happened.
Through partial reading of the German codes, Churchill knew that Coventry was to be bombed. He was forced to made a Terrible decision.
Send the RAF fighters to Coventry, evacuate the city......both would alert the Germans and loose the incredably valuable code advantage or keep quiet and let Coventry be destroyed.
It was a horrable "Sophies Choice", in retrospect, I and most historians feel he did the right thing.
I have read many books on the subject, it appears that for several reasons, partially broken codes as well as seeing the Singapore, Dutch East Indies invasion fleets heading south. Everyone knew something was going to happen in the next few days.
Most expected the Japanese to take on fairly weak British/Dutch forces to obtain oil/raw materials. What they did not know, was that the Japanese Carriers were heading to Pearl.
They had given several War warnings to the Philippines and Hawaii Commands, yet both were essentally caught napping. Kimmel and Short (Hawiian Navy/Army) were canned, MacAurthur (Philippines) should have been!
As far as the Coventry attack goes, to say the Brits "helped" the Germans attack Coventry is way over stating what happened.
Through partial reading of the German codes, Churchill knew that Coventry was to be bombed. He was forced to made a Terrible decision.
Send the RAF fighters to Coventry, evacuate the city......both would alert the Germans and loose the incredably valuable code advantage or keep quiet and let Coventry be destroyed.
It was a horrable "Sophies Choice", in retrospect, I and most historians feel he did the right thing.
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Howard Jones
Supporter
If you want to know what happened read these books.
Amazon.com: At Dawn We Slept: The Untold Story of Pearl Harbor (9780140157345): Gordon W. Prange, Donald M. Goldstein, Katherine V. Dillon: Books
http://www.amazon.com/Pearl-Harbor-...=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1323451020&sr=1-4
That was my dad that Rob was talking about. As a footnote he visited Hiroshima with my mom after they retired and they were in Japan on a vacation in the 70's.
He took a picture of his signature at the vistor center sign in book.
It read:
Mr and Mrs Howard Jones
Uss Oklahoma BB37
6-7-39 to 12-7-41
Paybacks a bitch.
Amazon.com: At Dawn We Slept: The Untold Story of Pearl Harbor (9780140157345): Gordon W. Prange, Donald M. Goldstein, Katherine V. Dillon: Books
http://www.amazon.com/Pearl-Harbor-...=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1323451020&sr=1-4
That was my dad that Rob was talking about. As a footnote he visited Hiroshima with my mom after they retired and they were in Japan on a vacation in the 70's.
He took a picture of his signature at the vistor center sign in book.
It read:
Mr and Mrs Howard Jones
Uss Oklahoma BB37
6-7-39 to 12-7-41
Paybacks a bitch.
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Howard,
Thats very interesting, I did not know your dad was on the Oklahoma!
I love the Vistior Center comment!
Next time I see you, I would love to talk to you about your Dads experiances.
As far as "At Dawn We Slept", I have had that book for years.
I also have another 10-15 books about "The day of infamy"
Much new information, data, and investigations have been done since Prange's book came out.
The current accepted history of those times is continually changing. I have several much newer books, including a just released (2011) that is very well written and changes much of the long held views of what went on.
I'll look forward to our next meeting.
Thats very interesting, I did not know your dad was on the Oklahoma!
I love the Vistior Center comment!
Next time I see you, I would love to talk to you about your Dads experiances.
As far as "At Dawn We Slept", I have had that book for years.
I also have another 10-15 books about "The day of infamy"
Much new information, data, and investigations have been done since Prange's book came out.
The current accepted history of those times is continually changing. I have several much newer books, including a just released (2011) that is very well written and changes much of the long held views of what went on.
I'll look forward to our next meeting.
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My first job out of Engineering school was working at the Naval Shipyard at Pearl Harbor on nuke subs...every day at work I would just be in awe of the place I was in....I can't imagine what that experience was like.
I've been there, and the thought of all those young guys left where they died is very sobering.
To stand on the deck of the Missouri where the surrender was signed holding a picture of the event in hand is like stepping back in to history. You can just feel the ghosts of all those men standing there with you. It's almost like there is no way you should be able to occupy the same place. As none of us could possibly be worthy of the honor.
Awe inspiring place.
One of my Grandfathers guarded the Enola Gay before it's mission. He was told to shoot anything that moved. Gramps said a few water buffaloes and who knows what else met their end that night.
Awe inspiring place.
One of my Grandfathers guarded the Enola Gay before it's mission. He was told to shoot anything that moved. Gramps said a few water buffaloes and who knows what else met their end that night.
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