I do find this rather interesting...

Keith

Moderator
I am not interested in name calling or stirring (more than normal anyway) but just when most of us regular Paddock posters had reached some kind of consensus (previously more impossible than alchemy) over the tragic circumstances surrounding the Middle East American deaths, when along comes Jeff Young, our resident Fundamentalist Muslim apologist, and immediately throws all else into confusion. I must confess that I rose to his bait and perhaps unwisely exchanged points of view, but that only resulted in anti British jibes too.


Whether or not anything I said made any sense during this exchange or not, I didn't want to lose sight of the fact that I enjoyed our brief moment of unity over this extremely difficult and sensitive issue. I feel that cross border consensus of this nature, by the people themselves without national self interest intervening, can move governments to policy changes that takes away the hubris.

I am quite saddened by Jeff Young's stance on this, choosing to denigrate his allies instead of seeking solutions. I do not know what in his past brings him to read every fourth word anyone posts and coming up with a false reading. I must say that even after almost 10 years on here, I have never actually formed much of an opinion about anyone from what I have read, only from what I have seen in the flesh, and of course as I have never met him or likely too, I have no real opinion of him as a person apart from what he reveals in his posts, which isn't much.

Anyway, call me a simple person that simply does not understand why he has to come on here and try and tie everyone in knots about Muslims and endow posters with labels they don't deserve and are not true images (from what I personally know of people), perhaps he is married into a Muslim family and has endured some bigotry himself as a result. I cannot know.

I will continue to comment legally and truthfully about any matter that I might have an opinion on, but henceforth I will not be drawn into this circular diatribe.

Finally, I see they are now advertising for a new Consul for Benghazi.

Might I humbly suggest Mr Young apply for the job? I believe he is eminently qualifies, as was the last Ambassador.
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
Jeebus, settle the fuck down Keith. You do a good (and typically British) job of taking yourself far too seriously when appearing to not take yourself seriously.

There is a, in place virulent, anti-Muslim/Islamophobic theme that runs through a lot of posts in this place. It's bigoted. It suggests over and over that only Muslims are responsible for violence, terrorism, soggy cereal, indigestion, whatever, and God-fearin' Christians are never to blame.

To use one of your terms -- bollocks. Get a grip.

If the "consensus" is that "all Muslims are bad" then the last time I heard about a consensus like that was when the 10 frat guys wanted to beat up the gay guy, or the ten guys in hoods wanted to hang the negro.

Does Muslims do bad things? Certainly. Do Christians? Certainly. Do Jews? Certainly. And so on. It's ok to point out when Muslims commit atrocities, and yet, when I point out that the shooter in Norway was a Christian right wing fundamentalist, Morton loses his mind and wigs out. Made me wonder about his stability really. And he flew planes with weapons? Good grief.

So how about this for consensus. Why don't we all settle down, and acknowledge that all religions have good folk (for example, like the Libyan CIVILIANS who stormed the still burning consulate in order to find Stevens, and who then, when no ambulance was available, carried him on their backs to a car to take him to a hospital) and bad folk.

Consensus?

Or would you rather just prattle on about me personally?
 

Jim Rosenthal

Supporter
Hey, Jeff, I am as liberal as the next guy (just ask Bob!) but damn near everywhere you look on the globe peace-loving Muslims are blowing something up. As a matter of fact, I'm trying hard to recall anything they do OTHER than blowing shit up.

I find it difficult to believe in the peace-loving intentions of people who act like this. Okay, some of their members are giving the whole group a bad name. So why isn't the group doing something about it?
 
about those people and also us,

you are what you know...

the problem is (most of it I guess), they learn their children to hate the Jews and Christians etc etc
there are also many video's about that, saw some starting at 2 years old.

combine that with year in year out taking this lessons and learning the koran? the way they want you to
and tell you the stories of how bad other non believers Kafirs? are and that they have to be killed,
combined with, that if when you are killed in that action you will be a hero and go to walhalla? and get 7 virgins or so?
anyway...they or at least most (who don't have TV etc and don't know more) can't help the way they think I guess...

and the people in power don't want them to know or think else wise otherwise they kill or mollest you or do other scary things...fear is a powerful waepon.

Best way is perhaps to get influence the right way or fix all teachers and hate-beards (Imams etc)
this "problem" won't go over anytime soon sadly...

ignore them could even make it worse, maybe not for now but for later and ofcorse for all who would like to be different (a better Muslim or Christian or go to a normal school or whatever more "western")
but are afraid of the consequenties when or if they do...

they (some extremist) are often sleeping cells...and dangerous, remember the Christian little girl who burned some pages of the Koran?
She did not... but a sick Imam did to blaim that the girl did it so that Christian girl would be arrested etc.

so...they are what they know
and those scary hate-beards are trying all they can do to keep it that way, lucky in the present times with lots of tech and digital stuff it will get there a bit faster (I hope) but scary things from the year say 600AD? to the present times, won't go away easily.
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Rene,

Another problem is that most folks in the Middle East have never lived in an open and free society.

The only experiance they have are with totalitarian Governments. If an anti Western film came out in Iran, Iraq, Egypt............they would assume it was approved by their leaders.

Now when dealing with an open western country, they think that any film that comes out of the US must have had backing or approval by our leaders. Hence the attacks on our Embassies.

I agree, ignoring them will only make this worse.

Luckily and hopefully, today, the internet age should speed up the process of learning about other cultures, instead of centuries perhaps decades will see a much better understanding between out peoples.
 

Charlie Farley

Supporter
For Sale :
One monocoque chassis with original bodywork, Gurney Weslake Engine, All original suspension, Transistorised ignition system, all original gauges, lighting, you know the score, everything original, seats, blah blah blah.

Will swap for USSR built ' Thermo Nuclear Device in a Suitcase ' circa 1995,
most importantly with active codes.
I want it 'in stock' for when i get terminal illness.
BTW. i'm not the only caucasian thinking along these lines.
Between 1100 AD and 1850 AD the muslim Kaliphs made Hitler look like a part time comic. 6 million Jews killed, Fuck that, its estimated that they slaughtered over 190 million of other faiths. Jeff, suck on this....
In one month, they 'exported ' 9,000 blonde virgins from Spain to feed the appetites of their rulers. Sick or what !!
BTW, the British didnt supply the USA with slaves, we just transported them. It was the arabs ( small 'a' ) that captured them.
Dirty scum.
 
Rene,

Another problem is that most folks in the Middle East have never lived in an open and free society.

The only experiance they have are with totalitarian Governments. If an anti Western film came out in Iran, Iraq, Egypt............they would assume it was approved by their leaders.

Now when dealing with an open western country, they think that any film that comes out of the US must have had backing or approval by our leaders. Hence the attacks on our Embassies.

I agree, ignoring them will only make this worse.

Luckily and hopefully, today, the internet age should speed up the process of learning about other cultures, instead of centuries perhaps decades will see a much better understanding between out peoples.

Since most Arabs won't have the internet, ever, the only ones learning the culture will be civilized people. Its a one way street for these people. We accede to their way or we die.
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
Hey, Jeff, I am as liberal as the next guy (just ask Bob!) but damn near everywhere you look on the globe peace-loving Muslims are blowing something up. As a matter of fact, I'm trying hard to recall anything they do OTHER than blowing shit up.

I find it difficult to believe in the peace-loving intentions of people who act like this. Okay, some of their members are giving the whole group a bad name. So why isn't the group doing something about it?

You can start here with the radical Islamists who rushed into the burning consulate and found Ambassador Stevens, chanting "God is Great" when they discovered him alive and then carried him on their backs part way to the hospital:

Video shows Libyans trying to rescue US ambassador | recordonline.com

You can continue with the reaction of the Libyan government and people to the attack, which was one of outrage and disgust.

You can do some reading on the Jordanian, Saudi, Egyptian, Indonesian and Malaysian governments tracking down, arresting and executing violent Islamic fundamentalists.

There is a radical, evil cancer in a small part of Islam. The answer is not to kill the entire body, but to rid it of the disease. As a few of the more educated posters above have noted, MOST of the radical Islamist movement comes from the poorer parts of the Muslim world.

There are what, almost a billion Muslims in the world? And most of them live peacefully in Morocco, or Algeria or Idonesia or Malaysia or Jordan or other places.

On the other hand, I guess we could adopt teh view of some "Christians" here about Muslims, and hold all Christians responsible for the actions of Timothy McVeigh or the Norwegian shooter, or the idiots who shot up the Sikh temple a few weeks back.
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
For Sale :
One monocoque chassis with original bodywork, Gurney Weslake Engine, All original suspension, Transistorised ignition system, all original gauges, lighting, you know the score, everything original, seats, blah blah blah.

Will swap for USSR built ' Thermo Nuclear Device in a Suitcase ' circa 1995,
most importantly with active codes.
I want it 'in stock' for when i get terminal illness.
BTW. i'm not the only caucasian thinking along these lines.
Between 1100 AD and 1850 AD the muslim Kaliphs made Hitler look like a part time comic. 6 million Jews killed, Fuck that, its estimated that they slaughtered over 190 million of other faiths. Jeff, suck on this....
In one month, they 'exported ' 9,000 blonde virgins from Spain to feed the appetites of their rulers. Sick or what !!
BTW, the British didnt supply the USA with slaves, we just transported them. It was the arabs ( small 'a' ) that captured them.
Dirty scum.

You really want to start a "killed by Christians over history" versus "killed by Muslims" bodycount? I think you would be very disappointed by the results my friend. Suck on that!
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
You really want to start a "killed by Christians over history" versus "killed by Muslims" bodycount? I think you would be very disappointed by the results my friend. Suck on that!

Jeff,

I was wondering how long it would take before the "lets just turn them into glass" idiots came out. Not very long!

Having a History Degree helps one put things in perspective.

Islam is approximately 1400 years old.

I really think these folks would be supprised at what atrocities the Christians were inflicting on the world when their religion was 1400 years old? And those atrocities were not commited by a few radials..........

In comparaison, they make the Muslims seem like boy scouts.
 
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Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
I come here for friendship & knowledge not this.

Keith,

You started this tread with outrage that anyone would have a different opinion than yours.

Does that fall under friendship or knowledge?



Keith, you say nothing when Charlie wants to nuke an entire people.

Does that fall under friendship or knowledge?



But let someone point out the inconvienent truth about religion in general, you turn to name calling.

Keith, does that fall under friendship or knowledge.



Keith if you are really looking for frienship, you need to work on your people skills.

If you are really looking for knowledge, do you think that limiting your discussion to only people you agree with will add to your knowledge?

Don't attack those with differing views, listen to them, think about where thay may be right or wong, use facts to make your point. Turning immediatly to name calling stops the discussion. Stops the transfer of Knowledge.
 
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You really want to start a "killed by Christians over history" versus "killed by Muslims" bodycount? I think you would be very disappointed by the results my friend. Suck on that!

Nice talk! You have some anger management issues Jeff. In recent years the Muslims definitely have an edge. Over history they still probably are ahead even with Christians having a 700 year headstart. Why do you have such an erection for Christians?
 
It's ok to point out when Muslims commit atrocities, and yet, when I point out that the shooter in Norway was a Christian right wing fundamentalist, Morton loses his mind and wigs out.

For goodness' sake. The actions of a f**king a**hole like that, is in no-way similar or comparable to mass-mob demoliton and destruction.

See this example of a demonic twat here in the UK:

Dale Cregan arrested after policewomen Fiona Bone, 32, and Nicola Hughes, 23, shot dead in Greater Manchester | Mail Online

If he calls himself a memeber of the Catholic church or of anything else, is this also suitable to compare against the Muslim threat? Surley not. What if this A -hole is athiest? Are all athiest's capable of murder.

Stop being so damn stupid


Of course all Muslims are not terrorists. But we are correct when we stand up against the very clear Muslim threat!
 
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