Americas Cup
- Thread starter brianstewart
- Start date
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
Or kill someone so quickly. I am still trying to get my head around the idea that a SAILBOAT can go nearly twice as fast as my Hatteras convertible with new diesels in it. I cruise 25-27 knots. They go 50, and plane up in seconds.
Frankly, I'd rather see the race be run with monohulls and safer for the crews, but I doubt it will happen. Maybe whoever wins this one will be willing to back it down a bit for the next. Sailboats aren't supposed to kill people, that is kind of the province of us powerboat idiots.
Frankly, I'd rather see the race be run with monohulls and safer for the crews, but I doubt it will happen. Maybe whoever wins this one will be willing to back it down a bit for the next. Sailboats aren't supposed to kill people, that is kind of the province of us powerboat idiots.
That may indeed happen if the Kiwis win it Jim. There is a lot of backing for going monohull again over here.
I'll be honest, I was thinking the same when watching the opening battle between USA and NZ today, but wow! What a spectacle!
I am mindful that it was also a very light breeze, but 40 knots? Holy crap - even the Umpire boats couldn't keep up.
Last time I ever caught a glimpse of the Americas Cup it was graceful old 12's with cream nosed fat people steering, oh, sorry I meant Dennis Connor, or was it Ted Turner?
This seems a quantum leap forward and even being a former cup winning helmsman myself (Finn Class) couldn't even understand the course never mind the new rules.
Like many ultimate sports - made for TV and an army of, no doubt suitably obnoxious partisan tribal hordes a la modern F1, I also surmised there probably wouldn't be a UK entry either, and if there is, it would be crap, because although we have our fair share of gifted sailors we do not have our fair share of gifted givers to pay for it. So, mixed feelings really - if they give this stuff free-to-air TV time then I'm for it, as they never would have done that for the 'OLD' boats.
Those sort of rigs can't come cheap either and I'm always amazed that NZ is always in the hunt with the best sailors, the best boats and the best tech - so I guess the good old 'white feather' will clean up again.
I am mindful that it was also a very light breeze, but 40 knots? Holy crap - even the Umpire boats couldn't keep up.
Last time I ever caught a glimpse of the Americas Cup it was graceful old 12's with cream nosed fat people steering, oh, sorry I meant Dennis Connor, or was it Ted Turner?
This seems a quantum leap forward and even being a former cup winning helmsman myself (Finn Class) couldn't even understand the course never mind the new rules.
Like many ultimate sports - made for TV and an army of, no doubt suitably obnoxious partisan tribal hordes a la modern F1, I also surmised there probably wouldn't be a UK entry either, and if there is, it would be crap, because although we have our fair share of gifted sailors we do not have our fair share of gifted givers to pay for it. So, mixed feelings really - if they give this stuff free-to-air TV time then I'm for it, as they never would have done that for the 'OLD' boats.
Those sort of rigs can't come cheap either and I'm always amazed that NZ is always in the hunt with the best sailors, the best boats and the best tech - so I guess the good old 'white feather' will clean up again.
But then you won't let any bugger in if he's even sniffed at a joint in the previous ten years! :laugh:
Seriously, on the form today, NZ is gonna clean up and take the 'jug' back...
We have standards Keith... :laugh:
I was actually stunned when I saw the new boats! I'm mean, CATS for Pete's sake???! FIFTY M.P.H.???!!!! My head couldn't process the whole concept! I'm still in shock over the 'winged keel' on the Kiwi's mono 'back in the day'.
Some of us adapt quicker/better than others, obviously...
Some of us adapt quicker/better than others, obviously...
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Err, Larry the winged keel back in the mono days was an Aussie boat skippered by the skinny and fit John Bertand. Against the portly Dennis Connor.
I still remember the party when we won the series. Definitely not a Kiwi effort.
I still remember the party when we won the series. Definitely not a Kiwi effort.
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
On the one hand, I like to go fast in anything. On the other hand, I think Ellison's stewardship of the Cup and setting the rules hasn't been good for it. A return to smaller boats (mono or cats) and limited rigs would not only make the boats safer, it would mean more countries could enter and more and better racing. I don't mean it ought to be a one-design series, but they have a lot of room to tighten up on the specs without making it a one-design.
Frankly, I think I'd like the Kiwis to win as well. I kind of think Larry Ellison is an asshole. Sorry.
Frankly, I think I'd like the Kiwis to win as well. I kind of think Larry Ellison is an asshole. Sorry.
Details, details...
I stand...uh...SIT corrected. My memory of facts/events from 30 years ago is obviously flawed juuuuuust a tad bit! 'Doesn't change my point about the impression made by the boat's keel design one bit though!
('Touchy bunch "down under", aren't they?!
)(Edit: Wasn't there some BIG DEAL made about the keel's designer not being an Ozlander 'per the rules'? I think he was Dutch or something.)
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Details, details...
I stand...uh...SIT corrected. My memory of facts/events from 30 years ago is obviously flawed juuuuuust a tad bit! 'Doesn't change my point about the impression made by the boat's keel design one bit though!
('Touchy bunch "down under", aren't they?!
Only when you say Aussies are Kiwis and visa versa.:laugh:
(Edit: Wasn't there some BIG DEAL made about the keel's designer not being an Ozlander 'per the rules'? I think he was Dutch or something.)
Ben Lexcen was an Australian designer, under the rules of the day the yacht had to be designed and built and crewed by Australians or it would have been disqualified.
After Australia won the New York yacht club tried to say that Lexcen stole the design from some Dutch guy. Didn't work, sore losers you lot.
The 'Win at all costs' philosophy has ruined many a good sport IMO by replacing personal skills with pricey tech.
F1 anyone?
Ya, I don't really remember all the specifics, Pete...just the fact there was some big stink made about it...'made a "mountain-out-of-a mole-hill", if you will. That kinda crapola has been going on in high-dollar sports since they were invented.
Keith's last comment above said it all.
I'm not sure if IRC but there was a big stink in Cowes about this winged wonder. The Aussie boat had a big tarp draped over it as it was craned out and some enterprising bloke dived in a got some 'naked' pictures of it. Not only was it winged but it moved! Deffo not cricket - and what a hullabaloo.
Now, everyone's got one...
There is something to be said for levelling the tech in highly skilled team sports. Although I am not a particular fan of one make car racing, I am certainly not a fan of handicap boat racing either. When I entered my Finn in a Yardstick race for example, I sailed off 85 PY, an impossible mountain to climb unless, or even if, you had the skills of Ben Ainslie. So although I loved just taking part, it was ever ever so hard to bring home some silver, and the fact that I did was due more to luck with the tides and wind than anything.
So, If Oz had a swinging keel then everyone should have had one too because otherwise, what are you looking at?
There's a a major difference between 'rule exploitation' and 'cheating' though and I would say the Aussie keel drove a coach and horses through the 'spirit' of the rules with the wing, but the only thing I remember as possibly being 'cheating' was the movement of the keel which was explicitly forbidden. A bit like the moving floor and tilting front wings in F1.
Forgive me if I have any of my facts wrong. This is from a hazy memory of a once much loved sport - not from Google or Wiki which are not always correct either...and anyway, I was there and took a photo myself (on land of course - can't find the bloody thing though. Photos never seem to survive divorce - and I have had three.)
PS I'm not sure it was Americas Cup but it would have certainly been 12's nevertheless.
Now, everyone's got one...
There is something to be said for levelling the tech in highly skilled team sports. Although I am not a particular fan of one make car racing, I am certainly not a fan of handicap boat racing either. When I entered my Finn in a Yardstick race for example, I sailed off 85 PY, an impossible mountain to climb unless, or even if, you had the skills of Ben Ainslie. So although I loved just taking part, it was ever ever so hard to bring home some silver, and the fact that I did was due more to luck with the tides and wind than anything.
So, If Oz had a swinging keel then everyone should have had one too because otherwise, what are you looking at?
There's a a major difference between 'rule exploitation' and 'cheating' though and I would say the Aussie keel drove a coach and horses through the 'spirit' of the rules with the wing, but the only thing I remember as possibly being 'cheating' was the movement of the keel which was explicitly forbidden. A bit like the moving floor and tilting front wings in F1.
Forgive me if I have any of my facts wrong. This is from a hazy memory of a once much loved sport - not from Google or Wiki which are not always correct either...and anyway, I was there and took a photo myself (on land of course - can't find the bloody thing though. Photos never seem to survive divorce - and I have had three.)
PS I'm not sure it was Americas Cup but it would have certainly been 12's nevertheless.
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Keith, from memory the wing was fixed! I'll google it shall I?
