What`s the yanks take on this?

M

Jack

Bad deal, highly secretive, little news about it.
Who will profit? Who looses?

It will be about as effective as NAFTA, which is a burden and makes little sense.
 
L

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
gtbob said:
What is the Transatlantic Trade Investment Partnership? - YouTube
Click to expand...

The content of this vid seems to reflect a 100% 'greenie' propaganda point of view...so much so that when the narrator said, "Environmental groups around the world reject fracking" - I stopped watching it right there. Environmental groups oppose anything and everything industry/business does.

But, as to the TTIP thing, this is the 1st I've heard of it, so I'll withhold my own judgment regarding it until I read up on it. That said, as a general steadfast rule, I don't like ANYTHING done behind closed doors. It just reeks of corruption on the face of it. That's how we got Oblahblahcare over here...
 
K

Keith

Moderator
The problem (again) Bob appears to be that the message is put together by people with an altogether different and seemingly un reconcilable agenda, hence Larry's comment. People see as far as "environmental group" and either stop reading or consign it to the left wing clap trap file, when really, it does bear closer examination. Interesting that few have heard of this...

I wonder what Farage's view of it is?

While we're on the subject, what is anyone's view of Fracking? My jury is still out for the same reason as stated above - poor association with fringe protestors. All the protests thus far have seen Nimby's coupled with Crusty's and a few Rainbow Warriors thrown in for good measure...not a good mix for a cohesive opposition.

Time for a new thread, but will anyone respond. We'll see...
 
G

Robert May Eng.

Have you ever wondered what happens when you forget history or are nationally arrogant?

JFK’S Secretary of State, Dean Rusk, was in France in the early 60’s when Charles De Gaulle decided to pull out of NATO. De Gaulle said he also wanted all NATO military out of France as soon as possible.

Rusk responded “Does that include those who are buried here?”

You could have heard a pin drop


During a conference in France where a number of international engineers were taking part, including French, UK and American. During a break, one of the French engineers came back into the room saying 'Have you heard the latest dumb stunt Bush has done? He has sent an aircraft carrier to Indonesia to help the tsunami victims. What does he intend to do, bomb them?’

A Boeing engineer stood up and replied quietly:

"Our carriers have three hospitals on board that can treat several hundred people; they are nuclear powered and can supply emergency electrical power to shore facilities; they have three cafeterias with the capacity to feed 3,000 people three meals a day. They can produce several thousand gallons of fresh water from sea water each day, and they carry half a dozen helicopters for use in transporting victims and injured to and from their flight deck.
We have eleven such ships; how many does France have?”

You could have heard a pin drop.


A Royal Navy Admiral was attending a naval conference that included Admirals from the Navies from the U.S. ,UK, Canada, Australia and France.
At a cocktail reception, he found himself standing with a large group of Officers that included personnel from most of those countries. Everyone was chatting away in English as they sipped their drinks. A French Admiral suddenly complained that, whereas Europeans learn many languages, the English learn only English. He then asked, 'Why is it that we always have to speak English in these conferences rather than speaking French?'

Without hesitating, the British Admiral replied, ‘Maybe it's because the Brit's, Canadians, Aussie's, South Africans, and Americans arranged it so you wouldn't have to speak German..'


You could have heard a pin drop.


THIS STORY FITS RIGHT IN WITH THE ABOVE…


Robert Whiting, an elderly gentleman of 83, arrived in Paris by plane. At Customs, he took a few minutes to locate his passport in his carry on.
"You have been to France before, monsieur?" the customs officer asked sarcastically.
Mr. Whiting admitted that he had been to France previously.
"Then you should know enough to have your passport ready."
The Englishman said, 'The last time I was here, I didn't have to show it."
“That is Impossible. You English always have to show your passports on arrival in France !"

The English senior gave the Frenchman a long hard look. Then he quietly explained,
''Well, when I came ashore at Gold Beach on D-Day in 1944 to help liberate this country, I couldn't find a single Frenchmen to show a passport to."
You could have heard a pin drop.


 
Veek

Pat

Supporter
The film clearly is agenda driven and often it's interesting to look at a position by examining who is against it. OPEC has spent millions in opposition to fracking. Some say they've lowered their prices over the past year or two to kill the practice. The film states fracking pollutes drinking water so one would assume ALL water supplies, ALL the time. Yet, the Environmental Protection Agency has also failed to find evidence of drinking water contamination in three separate studies. The California Environmental Protection Agency Secretary testified before a joint State Senate committee hearing that disposal wells for oil recovery in Central California are not polluting groundwater suitable for human use. But fracking, like sewerage processing, near drinking water supplies is probably a bad idea. When employing the practice elsewhere, evidence suggests it's quite safe. Fracking opens up fissures in the earth and like salt or other mining, can expose an aquifer of drinking water to other underground elements such as pockets of methane or propane gas (in the only unaffiliated contamination studies I've been able to find). Logic would suggest, don't frack next to the town well or water supplies (or frack deep enough to protect them). Many of the same people against nuclear power are against fracking. Decide for yourself why OPEC and countries like Russia and Venezuela would be against a process that adds to the supply of energy fuels and lowers their consumer cost.
The film's contention that U.S. workers have no enforceable protection rights against corporations is absolute nonsense. Spend an afternoon watching U.S. television and count the ads for law groups trolling for injured, wrongfully dismissed or improperly paid potential litigants. The unions have been suffering declines in the U.S. as a result of agencies like the OSHA, EEOC, DOL and OFCCP have more efficiently protected workers rights without burdening them with union dues. Go to any workplace and posters outlining the recourse to these agencies is a legal requirement.
The U.S. Chamber of Commerce credits NAFTA with increasing US trade in goods and services with Canada and Mexico from $337 billion in 1993 to $1.2 trillion in 2011, while the AFL-CIO blames the agreement for sending 700,000 American manufacturing (and predominately union) jobs to Mexico over that time (other studies have the number as low as 31,000). But U.S. employment increased over the period of 1993-2007 from 110.8 million people to 137.6 million people, within NAFTA's first five years of existence, 709,988 jobs (140,000 annually), were created domestically. The mid to late nineties was a period of strong economic growth in the United States. Classical macroeconomic theory suggests that when a country is experiencing economic growth (i.e. GDP is increasing), then there will also be an increase in the participation of the labor force. But it's also been noted that while net jobs went up, certain sectors like manufacturing, declined. So it may be that the trade unions are not big trade agreement supporters.
The film also rails about allowing unsafe U.S. products into the Eurosphere. That cuts both ways. If you've lived in the the UK for more than three months (1980-1996), you cannot donate blood in the U.S. because of concern about the spread of Mad Cow from the consumption of meat.
Personally, I don't like the government doing deals in secret and as "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what’s in it....” has not gone well for us in the past.
 
Last edited:
J

Steve

Supporter
gtbob said:
Have you ever wondered what happens when you forget history or are nationally arrogant?

JFK’S Secretary of State, Dean Rusk, was in France in the early 60’s when Charles De Gaulle decided to pull out of NATO. De Gaulle said he also wanted all NATO military out of France as soon as possible.

Rusk responded “Does that include those who are buried here?”

You could have heard a pin drop


During a conference in France where a number of international engineers were taking part, including French, UK and American. During a break, one of the French engineers came back into the room saying 'Have you heard the latest dumb stunt Bush has done? He has sent an aircraft carrier to Indonesia to help the tsunami victims. What does he intend to do, bomb them?’

A Boeing engineer stood up and replied quietly:

"Our carriers have three hospitals on board that can treat several hundred people; they are nuclear powered and can supply emergency electrical power to shore facilities; they have three cafeterias with the capacity to feed 3,000 people three meals a day. They can produce several thousand gallons of fresh water from sea water each day, and they carry half a dozen helicopters for use in transporting victims and injured to and from their flight deck.
We have eleven such ships; how many does France have?”

You could have heard a pin drop.


A Royal Navy Admiral was attending a naval conference that included Admirals from the Navies from the U.S. ,UK, Canada, Australia and France.
At a cocktail reception, he found himself standing with a large group of Officers that included personnel from most of those countries. Everyone was chatting away in English as they sipped their drinks. A French Admiral suddenly complained that, whereas Europeans learn many languages, the English learn only English. He then asked, 'Why is it that we always have to speak English in these conferences rather than speaking French?'

Without hesitating, the British Admiral replied, ‘Maybe it's because the Brit's, Canadians, Aussie's, South Africans, and Americans arranged it so you wouldn't have to speak German..'


You could have heard a pin drop.


THIS STORY FITS RIGHT IN WITH THE ABOVE…


Robert Whiting, an elderly gentleman of 83, arrived in Paris by plane. At Customs, he took a few minutes to locate his passport in his carry on.
"You have been to France before, monsieur?" the customs officer asked sarcastically.
Mr. Whiting admitted that he had been to France previously.
"Then you should know enough to have your passport ready."
The Englishman said, 'The last time I was here, I didn't have to show it."
“That is Impossible. You English always have to show your passports on arrival in France !"

The English senior gave the Frenchman a long hard look. Then he quietly explained,
''Well, when I came ashore at Gold Beach on D-Day in 1944 to help liberate this country, I couldn't find a single Frenchmen to show a passport to."
You could have heard a pin drop.


Click to expand...




Have always subscribed to George Patton's philosophy where he stated he'd rather have a German panzer division in front of him then a French tank division behind him...
 
J

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
Veek is on a roll. Don't agree with all of that, but in general, free trade is good for everyone. Free trade can never mean perfectly equal trade, so you do the best you can.

The interesting thing about the TPP agreement is that extends a lot of protections that were originally created by Western corporations to protect themseles when doing busienss in third world countries, to those no longer third world countries. THings like no crazy regulations directed at foreign corps only, etc.

Fracking is like any other mineral or resource extraction procedure. It can be done poorly, or correctly. There is nothing inherently wrong with it to begin with, but if done in the wrong places or the wrong way, sure, an issue. But the fact is if it is economically realistic to frack for natural gas, it's going to be done.
 
G

Robert May Eng.

After a relaxing bath, Monica Lewinsky was looking at herself naked in a mirror ... remembering her time with Bill Clinton.
Her frustration over her inability to lose weight was depressing her. In an act of desperation, she decided to call on God for help.

"God, if you take away my love handles, I'll devote my life to you," she prayed.
And just like that …..... her ears fell off!

Touching story, isn't it?
 
Pete

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
My view on fracking is it is just another mining technique. It can be done properly with the proper controls in place or not. It's the or not where problems exist.
 
YerDugliness

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
My viewpoint is that the industry performing the fracking has only one motive...profit. They grudgingly honor the few safety regulations that have been forced down their throats, all the while fighting the safety organizations and lobbying the now business-oriented congressional leadership for relief.

They have zero interest in whether or not the water that comes out of your faucets is potable or poisonous.

Doug
 
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