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Old 16th June 2017, 04:00 AM   #1
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London Tower Block Fire

It's beginning to unravel. The outright corruption that caused these blocks to be clad in what is basically a system such as Cellotex with a flimsy metal cover is being uncovered.
I find it really strange that this country can afford to build HS2 but leave so many people housed in rubbish accomodation. This block that just burned had about 9m spent on cladding the outside to make it look a bit better but no sprinkler system (at 400 per household)
I have to pay tribute to everyone attending and trying to sort things out in what was a terrible terrible fire. They have my thanks - forever. They are so incredibly brave.
I was passing Shepherds bush when it all re ignited and from LBC saying a small fire had started again to the whole building back on fire top to bottom - and there were still firemen in there.
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Old 16th June 2017, 04:04 AM   #2
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

Write to your politician and complain about HS2 and the total waste of money it will cause whilst these poor and under priviledged are being incinerated in this way.
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Old 16th June 2017, 08:42 AM   #3
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Originally Posted by David Morton View Post
I find it really strange that this country can afford to build HS2 but leave so many people housed in rubbish accomodation. This block that just burned had about 9m spent on cladding the outside to make it look a bit better but no sprinkler system (at 400 per household)
I have to pay tribute to everyone attending and trying to sort things out in what was a terrible terrible fire. They have my thanks - forever. They are so incredibly brave.
Well said David.
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Old 16th June 2017, 01:27 PM   #4
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

Exactly. FYI, that cladding is banned for use in the USA for same reasons.
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Old 17th June 2017, 02:47 PM   #5
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

I'd like to be associated with David Morton's remarks...
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Old 18th June 2017, 08:00 AM   #6
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

David,

But spending well upwards of 60 Billion on HS2 will allow passengers to arrive 20 to 30 minutes early and give them time to spend on really creative activities, such as buying another coffee....... how can't it make sense ?

10 million for the insulated cladding works, whereas for an additional 100,000 the insulation could have been totally inert... go figure building control department.
Though I fear this is much more involved that the cladding. I would be looking into lack or incorrect installation of intumescent fire breaks between floors, externally.
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Old 19th June 2017, 09:13 AM   #7
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

"But spending well upwards of 60 Billion on HS2 will allow passengers to arrive 20 to 30 minutes early and give them time to spend on really creative activities, such as buying another coffee....... how can't it make sense ?"

Well said that man! It'll also provide extra time to visit and enjoy the new hipster Cereal Bars for breakfast..

It's simply appalling & a heresy to even suggest that it might not be built!
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Old 19th June 2017, 05:25 PM   #8
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

Very sad so many people died and were injured in what was an avoidable fire. That building should have had Phenolic foam insulation and glass reinforced Phenolic resin panels. This material does not burn and for cost is quite viable for an application like this.
It also makes great lightweight molded shape engine compartment heat shields.
If you are not familiar with Phenolic try this:
http://www.unitedcomposites.net/join...es/PWPaper.pdf
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Old 19th June 2017, 11:45 PM   #9
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

How is the railways relevant to the topic?

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Old 20th June 2017, 03:24 AM   #10
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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David,



10 million for the insulated cladding works, whereas for an additional 100,000 the insulation could have been totally inert... go figure building control department.
Though I fear this is much more involved that the cladding. I would be looking into lack or incorrect installation of intumescent fire breaks between floors, externally.
This was on the local news a few days ago, seems the inspection was done by a private inspector.

Manchester has seen a boom in new city centre tower blocks in recent years - some of which have hit the headlines for safety shortcomings.

A year ago residents of the freshly-built Islington Wharf Mews development in New Islington had to be evacuated after the fire service found it did not comply with regulations, despite having been signed off as compliant at the time of construction.

Developer ISIS Waterside had used a private building inspector to certify it as safe, which is permitted under regulations. But when the fire brigade visited for a check, officers found it to be so dangerous residents had to be moved out for months while extra work was carried out.

At the time the developers said all the necessary building control certification at Islington Wharf Mews had been approved when the development was completed, so the firm had had ‘no reason to suspect any non-compliance’ with fire regulations.
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Old 20th June 2017, 08:56 AM   #11
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

Ryan,
I will say this only once.
You don't have a clue how this money is shovelled around and into the pockets
of the developers. Do you know the difference between green field and brown field development? Lots of people are making shed loads of government money (actually our money) on these developments and its the under priviledged, the blacks, the immigrants, the unemployed, those lacking in any skills, you know who I mean - who are getting shafted. The Railways are just a small tip of the iceberg. See how your country develops - if it ever gets beyond where it is now - and these smart asses with huge bank accounts will take over.
Do we have to look after to look after these unfortunates? Bloody right we do..
They do not deserve public incinerations on the back of developers profits which is where it is at the moment. 79 DEAD as of today. I think it will reach at least 150+.
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Old 24th June 2017, 06:53 AM   #12
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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How is the railways relevant to the topic?

Ryan
How is it relevant? As railways per ce, it isn't but as an object lesson in corruption and waste of 60 billion by govt/private enterprise on a project no one wants, no one needs and serves no purpose as opposed to a cheapskate developer who probably won the contract courtesy of a greased palm installing death trap materials in a tower block. That's the relevancy..and the disgrace.

The Towering Inferno. Life does indeed imitate art..
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Old 24th June 2017, 07:01 AM   #13
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

The firm that fitted combustible cladding to Grenfell Tower failed to pay a nearly half-a-million pound bill for materials, it has been revealed.
The company, Harley Curtain Wall, went into administration as work to install insulation and panels during Grenfell Tower's refurbishment was underway.
It owed a total of 479,000 to CEP Architectural Facades.
Administrators reported that the firm was suffering severe cashflow problems that were 'affecting the managements ability to focus on trading matters'.
A major dispute had taken place between Harley Curtain Wall and a major contractor in September 2015 - throwing it into financial difficulties.
It comes as police investigate a chain of regulators, designers and contractors into the deaths of 79 people +5
It comes as police investigate a chain of regulators, designers and contractors into the deaths of 79 people
Its owner, Ray Bailey, went on the buy his previous firm's assets before setting up Harley Facades and immediately returning to work on Grenfell.
It comes as police investigate a chain of regulators, designers and contractors into the deaths of 79 people.


Read more: Firm that fitted Grenfell cladding went out of business | Daily Mail Online
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Old 26th June 2017, 04:35 AM   #14
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

With such a large number of towers failing retrospective fire tests the issue to me is one of how did this cladding gets its fire certificate? When a firm buys cladding, it buys on the basis of amongst other criteria, its fire safety certificate. You don't then go a get it tested each time. Potential comparison to the VW emissions scandal in that somehow this material got its certification but in everyday use fails at its task of being fire resistant to a sufficient degree. If just one building was fitted with the faulty paneling then conspiracy theory of backhanders etc makes sense but with so many now declared as having fallen short of being fire resistant means the real issue is potentially not on the tower block refurbishment contracts but well before that when this material was fire rated.
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Old 26th June 2017, 05:41 AM   #15
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

Thank you Malcolm.
I've just had a look around High Wycombethis morning - Loads of buildings that have been clad including the new Bucks University.Now multiply how many. quite a few of them are high rise, in Buckinghamshire. The national figure published yesterday of 600 buildings is just accomodation and is just the tip of the iceberg. It may turn into the biggest scandal this country has ever known.
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Old 27th June 2017, 02:24 AM   #16
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

I've never heard of applying external cladding to a building. Does anybody know if this sort of thing is done in the USA?
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Old 27th June 2017, 06:22 AM   #17
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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I've never heard of applying external cladding to a building. Does anybody know if this sort of thing is done in the USA?
Mike,

It has been reported the cladding used on London's Grenfell Tower was supplied by a US firm.
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Old 27th June 2017, 08:26 AM   #18
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

Yes and no. The supplier was Reynobond who manufacture in France and the US. They are part of Arconic, a US company, who were formed by the division of Alcoa into two separate entities.
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