GT40s.com
MK-I  MK-II  MK-III  MK-IV  GULF  MIRAGE  J-CAR  LOLA
GT40s.com
Home Forum Gallery Support GT40s.com  
Register FAQ Advertisers Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   GT40s.com > >

Notices

The Paddock Enter at your own risk.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 5th October 2017, 10:17 PM   #61
Rod
RodKnock's Avatar
RodKnock
Rookie
United States
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 80
Re: Guns in America

Every driver and car on the road requires a written test, a road test, insurance and registration every year. And each driver must renew their license, assuming they have operated within the laws over the years between renewals.

Universal background checks for every gun purchase/sale/transfer seems reasonable to me. And felons and people on the "no fly list" shouldn't be able to purchase guns.

The Constitution isn't a perfect document and that's why it's been amended. The FF's screwed up with the electoral college and the 2nd amendment IMO. Unfortunately, nothing will ever get solved in Congress in this era of non-bipartisanship and large sums of dark money.

Here's a story of a Tampa Bay 4-year old going into her grandma's purse for candy, finding a gun, and killing herself.

Girl, 4, shoots self while grabbing candy in grandma’s purse - The Washington Post
RodKnock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th October 2017, 01:41 AM   #62
Larry L.
Lifetime Premier Supporter
United States
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Washington St.
GT40: none. YET.
Posts: 2,514
Re: Guns in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock View Post
Every driver and car on the road requires a written test, a road test, insurance and registration every year. And each driver must renew their license, assuming they have operated within the laws over the years between renewals.

Driving is a privilege...owning/carrying guns is a RIGHT. None of the above applies to exercising a RIGHT. Any right. Once any gov't mandated "test" (or 'permit', or 'fee' [CCW/CPL anyone?] or whatever) becomes a prerequisite to exercising a right, that right instantly becomes a privilege.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock View Post
Universal background checks for every gun purchase/sale/transfer seems reasonable to me.

Paddock (the 'Vegas assassin) passed his background check(s) with flying colors. 'Just sayin'...


Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock View Post
Here's a story of a Tampa Bay 4-year old going into her grandma's purse for candy, finding a gun, and killing herself.

How many stories do you suppose one could find on the net wherein a toddler was killed when his/her parent backed out of the garage and ran over him/her...or drowned in a backyard pool...or died in a car wreck...or was killed by a falling tree...or killed by the family dog...or died as a the result of any one of thousand OTHER preventable events/situations/activities?

Last edited by Larry L.; 6th October 2017 at 08:40 AM. Reason: Dyslexia
Larry L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th October 2017, 02:58 AM   #63
kaspa's Avatar
kaspa
10 tenths
Australia
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Maroochydore QL
GT40: i wish
Posts: 1,088
Re: Guns in America

I just heard another mysterious fact about the events in Vegas the other day, apparently theres almost 2000, yep that's right 2000 CCTV cameras in the Mandalay hotel, yet not one of them caught even a sec of the alleged perp carting all his equipment into the room, according to the FBI. I don't know about you guys over there but I smell a rat.
John
__________________
Steinard F5000 Steinard LMP Steinard M1B
kaspa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th October 2017, 08:29 AM   #64
Larry L.
Lifetime Premier Supporter
United States
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Washington St.
GT40: none. YET.
Posts: 2,514
Re: Guns in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaspa View Post
I just heard another mysterious fact about the events in Vegas the other day, apparently theres almost...2000 CCTV cameras in the Mandalay hotel, yet not one of them caught even a sec of the alleged perp carting all his equipment into the room, according to the FBI...

Did you hear/see that on a network/local news report in your area wherein someone in the FBI was sourced, or were you told that word-of-mouth (rumor/speculation by someone)? 'Asking because that's something we (well, I) haven't heard word-one about over here.

I've attempted to Google that story/info several different ways and can't find squat. Do you happen to have/know where to find a link to it???
Larry L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th October 2017, 10:56 AM   #65
YerDugliness's Avatar
YerDugliness
Lifetime Premier Supporter
United States
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SW Kansas
GT40: 1/24 scale MKII
Posts: 2,261
Re: Guns in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry L. View Post
How many stories do you suppose one could find on the net wherein a toddler was killed when his/her parent backed out of the garage and ran over him/her...or drowned in a backyard pool...or died in a car wreck...or was killed by a falling tree...or killed by the family dog...or died as a the result of any one of thousand OTHER preventable events/situations/activities?
So...that makes it OK that the grandmother left a loaded and unlocked pistol in a purse that a TODDLER could access, Larry?

That grandmother should be prosecuted for her careless act. One has to wonder if she ever took a class on gun ownership. If she is going to exercise that RIGHT, then it is reasonable to assume her grandchild had the RIGHT to expect her grandmother to do so in a responsible manner.

She did not. What a tragedy...a child lost her life and her grandmother lost a precious little loved one, all because she was careless. Careless drivers can be charged with vehicular manslaughter, why can't there be some similar charge for this careless act involving a loaded, unlocked gun?

I am all for responsible gun ownership...but this person was not a responsible steward of that gun.

Sadly, there are no winners in this case.

Doug
__________________
YD,E./PNB

Retired twice, now back at work, but still attempting to age disgracefully
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
YerDugliness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th October 2017, 11:29 AM   #66
Al Wohlstrom's Avatar
Al Wohlstrom
I Have No Life
United States
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Tucson, AZ
GT40: RCR SLC LS7 Ric
Posts: 2,239
Re: Guns in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by YerDugliness View Post
So...that makes it OK that the grandmother left a loaded and unlocked pistol in a purse that a TODDLER could access, Larry?

That grandmother should be prosecuted for her careless act. One has to wonder if she ever took a class on gun ownership. If she is going to exercise that RIGHT, then it is reasonable to assume her grandchild had the RIGHT to expect her grandmother to do so in a responsible manner.

She did not. What a tragedy...a child lost her life and her grandmother lost a precious little loved one, all because she was careless. Careless drivers can be charged with vehicular manslaughter, why can't there be some similar charge for this careless act involving a loaded, unlocked gun?

I am all for responsible gun ownership...but this person was not a responsible steward of that gun.

Sadly, there are no winners in this case.

Doug
I am all for responsible gun ownership...but this person was not a responsible steward of that gun.

Maybe not, but then you should prosecute careless parents in all of the other events Larry mentioned.
__________________
Al
Buy American!
Al Wohlstrom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th October 2017, 11:51 AM   #67
YerDugliness's Avatar
YerDugliness
Lifetime Premier Supporter
United States
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SW Kansas
GT40: 1/24 scale MKII
Posts: 2,261
Re: Guns in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Wohlstrom View Post
I am all for responsible gun ownership...but this person was not a responsible steward of that gun.

Maybe not, but then you should prosecute careless parents in all of the other events Larry mentioned.
I agree wholeheartedly with that, Al!

The last time I looked, though, this thread was about guns in America...not toddler deaths. Responsible gun ownership is based on just that...being respinsible in your use and storage of a deadly weapon. This person was not a responsible owner...in TX individuals are required to take hunter safety classes before they can get hunting licenses...a major emphasis of which is safe practices for gun use and storage. What would be wrong with every gun purchaser to be required to attend a class and pass a test about safe gun ownership? It would be available at every gun shop and would be taken during the waiting period while background checks were being conducted.

"EVERY TIME?", you ask. Sure, why not? It's an important issue...it deserves no less...and I suspect that grandmother would agree with that now.

Doug
__________________
YD,E./PNB

Retired twice, now back at work, but still attempting to age disgracefully
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
YerDugliness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th October 2017, 12:39 PM   #68
Rod
RodKnock's Avatar
RodKnock
Rookie
United States
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 80
Re: Guns in America

Rights? Privileges? I don't personally give a S. Just words to me. Semantics. Driving, drugs, tobacco and firearms should all be strictly regulated. If you want to own and operate a gun you should have to pass a universal background check, prove you have the mental stability and intelligence to own and operate a gun and you're not a felon and not on the "no fly" list.

Regarding Paddock, the killer, the investigation isn't done yet, but reports are that he was being treated by a psychiatrist with a drug called diazepam. If you're being treated with a drug like diazepam, then you should not be able to pass a background check and shouldn't be able to buy a gun.

BTW, did you know that there's a correlation between education and gun ownership? The less educated, the more likely you'll own a gun. Figures. That grandma should not have been sold a gun. She obviously was unable to secure it properly.

Thank goodness CA is one of the states with the least amount of guns and the most gun regulation.
RodKnock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th October 2017, 01:23 PM   #69
Al Wohlstrom's Avatar
Al Wohlstrom
I Have No Life
United States
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Tucson, AZ
GT40: RCR SLC LS7 Ric
Posts: 2,239
Re: Guns in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock View Post
Rights? Privileges? I don't personally give a S. Just words to me. Semantics. Driving, drugs, tobacco and firearms should all be strictly regulated. If you want to own and operate a gun you should have to pass a universal background check, prove you have the mental stability and intelligence to own and operate a gun and you're not a felon and not on the "no fly" list.

Regarding Paddock, the killer, the investigation isn't done yet, but reports are that he was being treated by a psychiatrist with a drug called diazepam. If you're being treated with a drug like diazepam, then you should not be able to pass a background check and shouldn't be able to buy a gun.

BTW, did you know that there's a correlation between education and gun ownership? The less educated, the more likely you'll own a gun. Figures. That grandma should not have been sold a gun. She obviously was unable to secure it properly.

Thank goodness CA is one of the states with the least amount of guns and the most gun regulation.
And in the top 5 for gun deaths, how's that working for you?
__________________
Al
Buy American!
Al Wohlstrom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th October 2017, 02:06 PM   #70
Rod
RodKnock's Avatar
RodKnock
Rookie
United States
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 80
Re: Guns in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Wohlstrom View Post
And in the top 5 for gun deaths, how's that working for you?
Please try again. You're wrong!

Wikipedia states CA as 9th LEAST based on population based on 2013 data. Working out great for me!


State Rate
Hawaii 2.6
Massachusetts 3.1
New York 4.2
Connecticut 4.4
Rhode Island 5.3
New Jersey 5.7
New Hampshire 6.4
Minnesota 7.6
California 7.7
Iowa 8.0
Illinois 8.6
Washington 8.7
Nebraska 9.0
Vermont 9.2
Maryland 9.7
Wisconsin 9.7
South Dakota 10.0
Virginia 10.2
Delaware 10.3
Texas 10.6
Maine 10.9
Ohio 11.0
Oregon 11.0
Pennsylvania 11.2
Kansas 11.4
Colorado 11.5
North Dakota 11.8
Florida 11.9
Michigan 12.0
North Carolina 12.1
Georgia 12.6
Utah 12.6
Indiana 13.0
Kentucky 13.7
Nevada 13.8
Arizona 14.1
Idaho 14.1
West Virginia 14.3
Missouri 14.4
South Carolina 15.2
Tennessee 15.4
New Mexico 15.5
Oklahoma 16.5
Montana 16.7
Wyoming 16.7
Arkansas 16.8
Alabama 17.6
Mississippi 17.8
Louisiana 19.3
Alaska 19.8
RodKnock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th October 2017, 04:54 PM   #71
kaspa's Avatar
kaspa
10 tenths
Australia
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Maroochydore QL
GT40: i wish
Posts: 1,088
Re: Guns in America

Larry mate i'm just
picking up bits and bobs on the local news and current affairs programs, plus theres a lot of live video from ground zero on U tube.
one thing that does puzzle me though the AR15 fires a .223 round, now theres enough ex Vets on here that would know a .223 has an effective range of around 400yards, so how far was the 32nd window from ground zero, a little over 400 yards, even from that elevation it doesn't add up.
john

john
__________________
Steinard F5000 Steinard LMP Steinard M1B
kaspa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th October 2017, 05:43 PM   #72
Larry L.
Lifetime Premier Supporter
United States
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Washington St.
GT40: none. YET.
Posts: 2,514
Re: Guns in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by YerDugliness View Post
So...that makes it OK that the grandmother left a loaded and unlocked pistol in a purse that a TODDLER could access, Larry?

Not hardly...but then, you already knew that didn't you.

Evidently you just chose to ignore my point...which was that there are countless situations that do not involve guns in which carelessness, inattention, negligence, stupidity or just plain recklessness results in someone's death.

'Should have been clear from the statement: "...died as a the result of any one of thousand OTHER preventable events/situations/activities..."
Larry L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th October 2017, 06:00 PM   #73
Rod
RodKnock's Avatar
RodKnock
Rookie
United States
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 80
Re: Guns in America

Now I understand why, that as a group, gun owners are less-educated. And conversely, gun ownership decreases with increases in education level.

Totally makes sense.
RodKnock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th October 2017, 09:45 PM   #74
Al Wohlstrom's Avatar
Al Wohlstrom
I Have No Life
United States
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Tucson, AZ
GT40: RCR SLC LS7 Ric
Posts: 2,239
Re: Guns in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock View Post
Please try again. You're wrong!

Wikipedia states CA as 9th LEAST based on population based on 2013 data. Working out great for me



State Rate
Hawaii 2.6
Massachusetts 3.1
New York 4.2
Connecticut 4.4
Rhode Island 5.3
New Jersey 5.7
New Hampshire 6.4
Minnesota 7.6
California 7.7
Iowa 8.0
Illinois 8.6
Washington 8.7
Nebraska 9.0
Vermont 9.2
Maryland 9.7
Wisconsin 9.7
South Dakota 10.0
Virginia 10.2
Delaware 10.3
Texas 10.6
Maine 10.9
Ohio 11.0
Oregon 11.0
Pennsylvania 11.2
Kansas 11.4
Colorado 11.5
North Dakota 11.8
Florida 11.9
Michigan 12.0
North Carolina 12.1
Georgia 12.6
Utah 12.6
Indiana 13.0
Kentucky 13.7
Nevada 13.8
Arizona 14.1
Idaho 14.1
West Virginia 14.3
Missouri 14.4
South Carolina 15.2
Tennessee 15.4
New Mexico 15.5
Oklahoma 16.5
Montana 16.7
Wyoming 16.7
Arkansas 16.8
Alabama 17.6
Mississippi 17.8
Louisiana 19.3
Alaska 19.8

That's per 100,000 population, for total number, CA is in the top 5, actually #1 almost twice as many as #2 Texas for this year of 2011.

Total firearms murders, 2011

United States 8,583
Alaska 16
Arizona 222
Arkansas 110
California 1,220
Colorado 73
Connecticut 94
Delaware 28
District of Columbia 77
Georgia 370
Hawaii 1
Idaho 17
Illinois 377
Indiana 183
Iowa 19
Kansas 73
Kentucky 100
Louisiana 402
Maine 12
Maryland 272
Massachusetts 122
Michigan 450
Minnesota 43
Mississippi 138
Missouri 276
Montana 7
Nebraska 42
Nevada 75
New Hampshire 6
New Jersey 269
New Mexico 60
New York 445
North Carolina 335
North Dakota 6
Ohio 344 11
Oklahoma 131
Oregon 40
Pennsylvania 470
Rhode Island 5
South Carolina 223
South Dakota 5
Tennessee 244
Texas 699
Utah 26 18
Vermont 4
Virginia 208
Washington 79
West Virginia 43
Wisconsin 80
Wyoming 11
__________________
Al
Buy American!
Al Wohlstrom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th October 2017, 09:49 PM   #75
Al Wohlstrom's Avatar
Al Wohlstrom
I Have No Life
United States
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Tucson, AZ
GT40: RCR SLC LS7 Ric
Posts: 2,239
Re: Guns in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock View Post
Now I understand why, that as a group, gun owners are less-educated. And conversely, gun ownership decreases with increases in education level.

Totally makes sense.
Going by this, I would think that you would have a houseful of guns.
__________________
Al
Buy American!
Al Wohlstrom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th October 2017, 12:38 AM   #76
Rod
RodKnock's Avatar
RodKnock
Rookie
United States
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 80
Re: Guns in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Wohlstrom View Post
Going by this, I would think that you would have a houseful of guns.
What a witty comeback. Pure genius.

Stats of the States - Firearm Mortality

As of 2016 Texas is #1 in total number. And do you realize that CA has almost 40,000,000 people, Texas 28,000,000, North Dakota under 700,000, so, the total number is meaningless without analyzing it in context. CA is 9th safest state per 100,000. That is how educated folks analyze statistics. No one lives in North and South Dakota, Vermont, Wyoming, etc. because they're mostly in the middle of nowhere and freezing much of the year.

I highly recommend taking a course in Statistics. I'm sure it'll be eye-opening for you.
RodKnock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th October 2017, 05:35 AM   #77
Nick Brough's Avatar
Nick Brough
Bronze Supporter
United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Warrington UK
GT40: SGT 351W G50
Posts: 1,654
Re: Guns in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock View Post
What a witty comeback. Pure genius.
Rod,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Wohlstrom View Post
Going by this, I would think that you would have a houseful of guns.
Firstly, Al is obviously as I am sure you are aware, insinuating he thinks you are of very low education, indicated by you having multiple guns at home.

Being the founding father of the “Guns in America" thread, he would have secondly amended his statement to say “if it were true” in front, the fact that he hasn’t clearly indicates he agrees that your original statement is true, which is surprisingly, way past where I stand, wonders will never cease.

None of this of course, helps in finding a solution to the problem, although it has been in the news over here that the NRA is now going to back efforts to restrict bump stocks. At long last and not before time, some common sense and a positive start on finding a solution appears on the face of it to have been made.

In its statement, the NRA said the government should, “immediately review whether these devices comply with federal law.” It added, “The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semiautomatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations.”
__________________
Regards
Nick

Last edited by Nick Brough; 7th October 2017 at 05:43 AM.
Nick Brough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th October 2017, 08:37 AM   #78
Al Wohlstrom's Avatar
Al Wohlstrom
I Have No Life
United States
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Tucson, AZ
GT40: RCR SLC LS7 Ric
Posts: 2,239
Re: Guns in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock View Post
What a witty comeback. Pure genius.

Stats of the States - Firearm Mortality

As of 2016 Texas is #1 in total number. And do you realize that CA has almost 40,000,000 people, Texas 28,000,000, North Dakota under 700,000, so, the total number is meaningless without analyzing it in context. CA is 9th safest state per 100,000. That is how educated folks analyze statistics. No one lives in North and South Dakota, Vermont, Wyoming, etc. because they're mostly in the middle of nowhere and freezing much of the year.

I highly recommend taking a course in Statistics. I'm sure it'll be eye-opening for you.
Total number of deaths, not deaths per 100,000 of population.
__________________
Al
Buy American!
Al Wohlstrom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th October 2017, 10:26 AM   #79
Larry L.
Lifetime Premier Supporter
United States
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Washington St.
GT40: none. YET.
Posts: 2,514
Re: Guns in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock View Post
Now I understand why, that as a group, gun owners are less-educated. And conversely, gun ownership decreases with increases in education level.
^^^ Elitist crapola.

'Ever noticed, no matter what the topic, you consistently label as "less educated" anyone who holds an opinion opposing yours...when, in reality, 'less indoctrinated' would be far more accurate?

Your implied position that individuals with higher educations are somehow inherently wiser than those without (thus, their opinions more valid) is at odds with that of Ralph Waldo Emerson who said: "We are shut up in schools and college recitation rooms for ten or fifteen years, and come out at last with a bellyful of words and do not know a thing."

If indeed, "gun ownership decreases with increases in education level", that very fact alone would prove Emerson right.










Last edited by Larry L.; 7th October 2017 at 10:31 AM.
Larry L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th October 2017, 04:07 PM   #80
Rod Brace's Avatar
Rod Brace
Silver Supporter
United States
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Indianola Iowa
GT40: McLaren replica
Posts: 203
Re: Guns in America

The second ammendment's intent wasn't hunting. Shall not infringe says it all.
Rod Brace is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
deaths, die, gun, homicides, year


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:44 PM.